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    Member Arentak's Avatar
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    Starting Trade Routes

    I'm finishing a nice spreadsheet of the Anuirean region.

    I was wondering what to do about starting trade routes. None are listed.

    I was thinking 1 trade route per 10 guild levels, what do you guys think?

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    Senior Member ryancaveney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arentak View Post
    I'm finishing a nice spreadsheet of the Anuirean region. I was wondering what to do about starting trade routes. None are listed. I was thinking 1 trade route per 10 guild levels, what do you guys think?
    Well, the *sea* trade routes for Anuire are listed in the Khinasi boxed set, along with the Anuirean navies, on one of the unbound cards.

    Aerenwe: A sea trade route from Calrie to Mermoune in Binsada generates 4 GB per domain turn to one guild. Navy: 2 galleons, 6 caravels, 2 coasters. The fleet is based upriver at the port of Calrie itself, a day’s sail from the Gulf of Coeranys.

    Avanil: Sea trade routes from Daulton to Ilien and from Anuire province to Seaward in Mieres generate 12 GB per domain turn for local guilds. Navy: 7 galleons, 12 caravels, 4 coasters. The Prince of Avanil holds the old Imperial Yards of the City of Anuire and uses the city’s harbor as his main naval base. The capital's fortifications protect the naval dockyards and slips.

    Boeruine: Sea trade routes from both Seasedge and Tariene to Stormpoint in Taeghas and from Bacaele to Bliene in Diemed generate 13 GB per domain turn for local guilds. Navy: 6 galleons, 11 caravels, 5 coasters. Most of Boeruine’s fleet sails from the port of Tariene, which has a much better harbor than Seaharrow.

    Brosengae: A sea trade route from Bindier to Crenier in Mieres generates 3 GB per domain turn for one guild. Navy: 5 caravels. Brosengae’s navy anchors in the bay of Bindier, although it often patrols the Arnienbae.

    Coeranys: No one has established a sea trade route. Navy: 3 caravels. Rumors hint that Coeranys is embarking on a building program to achieve parity with Osoerde’s fleet.

    Dhoesone: A sea trade route from Nolien to Riverford in Cariele generates 4 GB per domain turn for one guild. Navy: 5 caravels, 4 knarrs, 2 coasters.

    Diemed: A sea trade route from Ciliene to Seaward in Mieres generates 5 GB per domain turn for one guild. Navy: 2 galleons, 7 caravels, and 3 coasters, split between Aerele and Ciliene. The Baron of Diemed hopes to see a new trade route forged from Aerele to one of the great Khinasi ports, probably Zikala or Turin.

    Ilien: A sea trade route from Ilien to Ruorven in Coeranys generates 6 GB per domain turn for one guild. Navy: 2 galleons, 4 caravels, 2 coasters.

    Medoere: No one has established a sea trade route. Navy: 4 caravels. The fleet is based in Alamier.

    Osoerde: A sea trade route from Gulfport to Zikala generates 5 GB per domain turn for one guild. Navy: 3 galleons, 6 caravels, 2 coasters. Osoerde sails out of Gulfport and is thought to sponsor pirates and smugglers in the Sunken Lands.

    Roesone: As Roesone is not a seapower, local guilds maintain no sea trade routes. Navy: 2 caravels anchored in Abbatuor, 1 coaster in Proudglaive, and 1 coaster in Abbadiel. (Note: These two coasters are mentioned in the Player’s Secrets of Roesone domain sourcebook as the Registered Baron’s Ships Exploit and Adventure.)

    Taeghas: A sea trade route from Bhaine to Abbatuor in Roesone generates 5 GB per domain turn for one guild. Navy: 2 galleons, 5 caravels, and 2 coasters, based in the royal harbor at Stormpoint.

    Talinie: Two sea trade routes from Lindholme to Stormpoint in Taeghas each generate 4 GB per domain turn for one guild. Navy: 1 galleon, 6 caravels, and 1 coaster, divided between Seaport and Nowelton.
    I'm not keen on that last bit about two TRs which *both* go from Lindholme to Stormpoint, but that's canon for you. The land trade routes should be different, but the total numbers should be similar. The places that *need* road-based TRs are Endier, Belvadruor and Bhalaene, since they are the only big (level 6) cities not on this seaborne list; however, based on the small numbers above, probably only Endier has two. Haesrien, Alaroine, Ansien and Ghiere as 5s should probably also have one each (though not with each other, due to political opposition). That's probably it at game start, except for whatever 3s and 4s lie at the other end of those TRs.

    I am of two minds regarding the Imperial City. On the one hand, that kind of population density simply cannot exist without lots of trade going on. On the other hand, given that no sea trade routes connect to it, and lots of competing regents have small holdings there, no one should get to start the game controlling any that reach it.

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Its odd that there would be sea trade routes from both Seasedge and Tariene to Stormpoint in Taeghas. And why Stormpoint, a town of something like 3,850 in a province 3, instead of the city of Bhaine, which almost certainly has a town twice that size, in a province 6? Are the Taeghan Outfitters supposed to be remote enough from Avanil to elect to enrich them as much as Boeruine Trading Guild? Why not a trade route to Talinie? Instead Lindholme also goes to Stormpoint?

    Trade in Lindholme would almost certainly be about collecting the goods of the Black River region and transporting them north to the Taelshore (including Dhoesone), and bringing Taelish goods back to the Black River for local distribution.

    Directly or through intermediaries, Stjordvik Traders has holdings in Tariene, Boeruine; Lindholme, Talinie; and Winter's Deep, Talinie. These three ports are going to trade with Nolien, Dhoesone; Bjarnheim, Svinik; and Saerskaap, Stjordvik. This way Storm makes money both coming and going and because two of these routes cross from Rjurik to Anuire, its easy to match the other one in terms of geography.

    Further, what's the whole focus on realm to relam. Trade isn't done that way. Its guild to guild.

    Take the Nolien, Dhoesone route to Riverford, Cariele. Sorry? Storm Holtson to Mheallie Bireon? Hack, cough, choke!?!

    El-Hadid has seven guild holdings, is described as having built his empire on trade with Khinasi (its sure not his bloodline or his character level), and has a single trade route to Coeranys? I assume he collects his proportional share of the Daulton to Ilien route which presumably was created by Prince's Pride.

    Its material like this that gives BR canon a disreputable name. Burn it.

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    Senior Member ryancaveney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kgauck View Post
    why Stormpoint, a town of something like 3,850 in a province 3, instead of the city of Bhaine, which almost certainly has a town twice that size, in a province 6?
    Because whoever controls the one sea route already leading out of Bhaine wants the one remaining slot for themselves, and thus spends RP to keep any from coming in, I suspect.

    Quote Originally Posted by kgauck View Post
    Further, what's the whole focus on realm to relam. Trade isn't done that way. Its guild to guild.
    I think it's because the realm, not the guild, owns the navy which transports the goods. Which is silly, because the guilds should just buy coasters of their own. Not galleons, surely, but coasters. The galleons should patrol the sea lanes and defend any merchant who has paid the proper fees (1-3GB/TR/turn, depending on size) and let, ahhh, "pirates" attack any who haven't.

    Quote Originally Posted by kgauck View Post
    Storm Holtson to Mheallie Bireon? Hack, cough, choke!?!
    Quite.

    Quote Originally Posted by kgauck View Post
    Its material like this that gives BR canon a disreputable name. Burn it.
    I posted it as a starting point for further discussion, which is beginning to work. =) Please, continue to make suggestions for what to use instead!

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    Senior Member ryancaveney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arentak View Post
    I'm finishing a nice spreadsheet of the Anuirean region.
    Which you will post here on the downloads page when you are done, I hope?

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    Member Arentak's Avatar
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    Its funny they list a trade route in Gulfport, Osoerde, but there is no guild there.

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    I think navies are mostly a guild thing, not a realm thing. Boeruine has no need for a navy. Repelling an invasion is much easier on land

    The Trading Guild of Boeruine has every reason to have a navy to protect its merchant ships.

    Side note. The guild doesn't own them, they register them. For the same reason a realm doesn't raise a unit of knights by buying several scores of horses and suits of plate armor.

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    Member Arentak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kgauck View Post
    I think navies are mostly a guild thing, not a realm thing. Boeruine has no need for a navy. Repelling an invasion is much easier on land

    The Trading Guild of Boeruine has every reason to have a navy to protect its merchant ships.

    Side note. The guild doesn't own them, they register them. For the same reason a realm doesn't raise a unit of knights by buying several scores of horses and suits of plate armor.
    Actually, securing Taergas is a lot easier by sea. And think strategicly, a smaller force, with lots of scouts (which Boeruine has), could hold off a larger force that wasnt very eager to do battle without revealing that 1/2 the army has left by sea to land behind the lines and pillage freely..

    I'm disinclined to think that these navies belong to the guilds. Guilds should have their own navies.

    I'm looking at land trade routes, its kinda like ley lines, they just don't fill in the details do they?

    I'm thinking maybe 1 land trade route per 10 levels of guild holding, and most should begin and end in territories the guild leader has guilds in, rather then be revenue-sharing type routes.

    Also, doing this requires you to know what roads exist at start...lol..

    Is there a project for this? Should we make a wiki article with our suggested roads?

    Maybe we need roads before we have land trade routes?
    Last edited by Arentak; 01-12-2009 at 06:02 PM.

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    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    I'd differ to earlier posters - I'd expect most trade routes to be between different guilds. The reasoning is my interpretation of the likely cost : profit ratio.

    To get a trade route, a guild needs:

    1.1. A consenting guild at each end.
    1.2. Consent of the law holder in each realm the trade routes passes through.
    1.3. A maintained road (land) or ships (sea route).
    1.4. Freedom from piracy (sea) or banditry (land).

    Now consider the cost of this.

    2.1. With two different guilds, each builds only the holding at their end - halving the cost for each guild.

    2.2. Each guild persuades their own local ruler - who may see the guild as 'theirs' or otherwise favour it over a foreign guild - likely dropping the price by over half for each guild.

    2.3. With two rulers from whom to choose ships, or to pay part of the fleet cost for merchant marine rights, the cost of the vessels reduces lowering the total cost and dropping each guilds share by more than half.

    2.4. Who wants two enemies rather than one? Even if each of the two is smaller, that simply means they have more time to focus on individual issues - both will happily collaborate to destroy bandits preying on their mutual route, the cost of piracy / banditry reduces overall as a result, dropping the cost of each share by over half.

    The end result is half the income - but less than half the costs , resulting in the same profit despite spending less.

    As long, of course, as you can trust the other guilder

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    Member Arentak's Avatar
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    I tried to make land trade routes at 1 per 10 levels of guilds, considering i put in a limited network of roads, most guilders HAD to share their trade routes in order to even have eligible trade routes.

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