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Thread: Tighmaevril

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    Tighmaevril

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    Senior Member ryancaveney's Avatar
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    Ghoigwnnwd created over a dozen weapons from an experimental metal he named tighmaevril.
    I'm pretty sure he didn't call it that. Rulebook p. 31 seems to me to imply that tighmaevril means "blood silver", which it would not have been called until after Deismaar, because until then nobody knew what bloodtheft was, much less that this stuff could help. This isn't certain, however, because the boxed text says "or" rather than "which means".

    Another thing I've just realized is that the way it's spelled implies to me that the word "tighmaevril" is actually Anuirean rather than Sidhelien. We know from mebhaighl that Sidhelien uses the Irish Celtic "bh = v" rule, but Anuirean is littered with V-words like Vanilen in Avanil. If it were actually a Sidhelien word, I think it would be spelled tighmaebhril.

    Scholars believe that most, if not all, tighmaevril weapons are currently held by the Gorgon.
    Adventure idea: can he do anything special if he collects the whole set? I'm reminded of the satanic nuns in the "Seven Swords of Wayland" episode of the 1980's BBC Robin Hood series with Michael Praed, who wanted to collect the whole set of magic swords to summon Lucifer -- the druid tells Robin, "those who seek to shatter the bolts that hold back the evil one must first take Albion [your magic sword] from you." Maybe the Gorgon thinks that if he gets them all in one place and performs the right ritual, he can finally become a god. Maybe the chief priest of the Hand of Azrai thinks that if he gets them all in one place and performs the right ritual, he can bring Azrai back to life. Maybe the Magian or the Raven is also trying to collect them, in order to do something fishy with the Evanescence.

    The players' job in any of these cases becomes not to kill the awnsheghlien, but rather to sneak into their heavily-guarded fortresses, steal one or more of the weapons from them, and then hide them away in their own secret and well-protected location. They get to do a dungeon crawl, and then design their own dungeon.

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    Member Hrandal's Avatar
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    Sounds more like a rumour that the Gorgon would put about in order to lure regents in.

    The kind of PCs that could succesfully do a "dungeon crawl" in the Battlewaite aren't too common in BR

    Besides, surely the original creator (no going to try and spell his stupidly complicated name) would have realised if there was something that special about them? It seems like he just made them as an expirement and they became important later on. Its a bit odd that they'd be all-powerful under those circumstances.

    If I was the Gorgon I'd be interested in finding me a smith that could re-forge a few of those medium sized tighmaevril weapons into one big enough for me to wield comfortably. They were made for elves, so presumably they tend towards the daintier side of melee.
    "As soon as war is declared, it will be impossible to hold the poets back. Rhyme is still the most effective drum."

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    Senior Member ryancaveney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrandal View Post
    Sounds more like a rumour that the Gorgon would put about in order to lure regents in.
    This is also very appropriate. =)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hrandal View Post
    Besides, surely the original creator (no going to try and spell his stupidly complicated name) would have realised if there was something that special about them? It seems like he just made them as an expirement and they became important later on. Its a bit odd that they'd be all-powerful under those circumstances.
    Yes, it is very odd, but that's precisely what all the published materials say. They were all created hundreds of years before Deismaar, when there were no such things as bloodlines to steal. Therefore, whatever their original purpose was, it can't have been bloodtheft. See thread http://www.birthright.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4066 for some ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hrandal View Post
    If I was the Gorgon I'd be interested in finding me a smith that could re-forge a few of those medium sized tighmaevril weapons into one big enough for me to wield comfortably. They were made for elves, so presumably they tend towards the daintier side of melee.
    I think the Gorgon himself is one of the very few beings in all Cerilia who has even a remote chance of being able to reforge one of them. I think it would require, among other things, a wizard realm spell with very high caster level and source level requirements, and a huge pile of RP to pull off. He is one of the only people who has all of those things. I also seriously doubt he'd ever let anyone else handle tighmaevril anywhere near him, since they have got to be some of the only weapons on the planet which can seriously hurt him.

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryancaveney View Post
    They were all created hundreds of years before Deismaar, when there were no such things as bloodlines to steal. Therefore, whatever their original purpose was, it can't have been bloodtheft. See thread http://www.birthright.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4066 for some ideas.
    To elaborate, in this thread we were discussing Undead, and Rowan in post #4 he wrote:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    I think the divine energy is an essence that permeates the mortal soul. [...] If the soul departs the body (in death), the divine essence is released as the spirit is ripped from the body. That's how bloodtheft and loss of the bloodline occurs. However, sentient undead creatures keep their souls bound to their bodies, animating them.
    A long debate about whether death does actually separate a person from his bloodline takes us to page five of the thread, where Ryan replies Rowen's idea:

    Quote Originally Posted by ryancaveney View Post
    Well, you've definitely made up my mind. The above is now true IMC. =) [...] I think there ought to be a ritual that can bind any scion's bloodline to an undead body. In fact, I think the Magian should have used it at least once already, and make reference to it in negotiations: "So you see, Your Grace, you can either become my willing vassal, or you'll be killed, reanimated and commanded into service like poor Count Reginald over there. Wave, Reginald! Good chap. Now, sir, which option do you and your charming wife prefer?"
    So at least a few of us established that bloodline is attached to the spirit (not actually the blood) as a divine essence. And that this bloodline could be bound to an undead body like poor Reginald.

    Another line of discussion in this Undead thread mentioned an elf lich in the FR, I believe. Ryan replied:
    Quote Originally Posted by ryancaveney View Post
    *shudder* *twitch* The concept of elves who voluntarily become undead is deranged! IMO, the mere existence of such a one would be plenty of reason for the most tree-hugging elf to decide a meteor swarm in the forest was an excellent idea, so long as it annihilated the abomination!
    This gave me the idea that elves might have been so horrified not just by undead, but even more so by a spirit bound to an undead body:
    Quote Originally Posted by kgauck View Post
    Is it possible that tighmaevril was originally conceived as a way to kill undead in such a way that frees the spirit of its bondage, rather than simply destroying the body and leaving the soul in bondage. [...] The fact that tighmaevril also separates bloodlines from the body so completely is an unforeseen side effect?
    So a weapon designed to utterly sever a spirit from a body would have the effect of also separating a bloodline from a body as well.

    It has to virtue of explaining why the stuff was invented or created in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    If you want to apply an existing game effect to explain it, tighmaevril could act as a disrupting weapon.
    We then return to the question of what happens at death. Does the spirit go with its bloodline, as I suggested was implied by a spectral scion? Does a bloodline linger in the body allowing resurection? Or does the bloodline return to the land?
    To hypothesize a little more, the divinity involved in a bloodline is inherent to Aebrynis rather than the Spirit World (it gets tied to the land). This might imply that when the soul or spirit separates from the physical in Aebrynis and is cast into the Spirit world, the bloodline does not readily go with it. Tighmaevril, then, acts to strengthen the Evanescence, forcing a complete separation between soul and bloodline upon death as it acts as the Sundering barrier between the two worlds.
    Quote Originally Posted by ryancaveney View Post
    Maybe then the original motivation was to create the perfect reusable material focus for a spell to help close portals from the Shadow World! That makes a lot of sense.
    The thread has a brief consideration of the Sideath wizard, then dies.

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    Member Hrandal's Avatar
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    Why would a mage care about closing portals to the Shadow World before it was the Shadow World? It was the Faerie realm at the time the blades were made, wasn't it?

    Making a blade out of expiremental materials and then having those materials later be discovered to be useful in a very specific fashion isn't that big a coincidence. Perhaps they were just made out of Tighmevril because it held a nice sheen, or made for a well-balanced weapon, or allowed you to channel touch-attack spells or somesuch.

    We have no idea the weapons were even made as a set - they could have been forged hundreds of years apart, for a variety of different reasons. Discovering that collectively they have some powerful ritual effect seems to me to be several orders of magnitude more unlikely.

    There are sets of items out there (like the rings of ley) that the elves do care about gathering back up, but they are never mentioned as being particularly bothered about the bloodsilver weapons. To me this implies that they didn't have any particular importance to the elves prior to the advent of bloodlines.
    "As soon as war is declared, it will be impossible to hold the poets back. Rhyme is still the most effective drum."

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    That would imply that undead is a post-Deismaar innovation.

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    Member Hrandal's Avatar
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    Assuming that is the only possible source of undead.

    There were still clerics, and I'm sure Azrai's priesthood raised the undead now and again.

    There was mention made of the fact that a lot of souls had lost their way because there wasn't a guardian of the dead, and that Nesirie was taking over this duty. Perhaps pre-Diesmar there was less undead because the passage between life and death was better tended to.
    "As soon as war is declared, it will be impossible to hold the poets back. Rhyme is still the most effective drum."

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    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    I think "Blood Silver" is the original name of the alloy used to make
    these weapons because at some (or every) point in the refinement,
    processing, forging or finishing of the weapons actual blood was
    used. It`s not at all unheard of for warriors to be bled so their
    blood can be used to quench weapons as they are being forged, or that
    materials (blood, poison) will be actually forged into the weapon as
    it is shaped. It also explains why tighmaevril works the way it does
    when committing bloodtheft since it could create sort of standard,
    sympathetic magic kind of relationship.

    Gary

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrandal View Post
    Assuming that is the only possible source of undead.
    Do we mean source as in home or the font of energy which sustains undead?

    There were still clerics, and I'm sure Azrai's priesthood raised the undead now and again.
    But what source of negative energy kept the undead animated?

    There was mention made of the fact that a lot of souls had lost their way because there wasn't a guardian of the dead, and that Nesirie was taking over this duty. Perhaps pre-Diesmar there was less undead because the passage between life and death was better tended to.
    Absolutely. But the Spirit World functions in many of the same ways as it does after its tainted by Shadow, and continues to be a World of Spirit, Fey, and Dreams. As such, note that in Rowan's final quote, he's talking about the barrier between this world and the Spirit World. Even before Deismaar, it would be the Spirit World that is the source to spirits that animate undead. So we don't need the later corruption of the Spirit World to make it desirable to kill undead in such a way that the spirit is no longer bound to a corpse.

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