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  1. #1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dosiere View Post
    I've compiled a list of those found in official materail and many that have been posted elsewhere:

    Life Ender...................................Greatsword+5
    Bloodhunger...............................Sentient Dagger +3
    Sword of the Anuirean Empire........Long Sword +5 (Sentient)
    Thunderclap................................Morning Star +3 (sentient)
    Spear of Destiny..........................Sentient Spear +4
    Heartreaver.................................Spear +5
    ???????????.................................Parrying Dagger +?
    Flail of Pain.................................Blow to head=Bloodtheft
    Despair.......................................Dagger +3/+5 Backstab
    Chalice of the Bloodlines...............transfer bloodpoints
    Bloodbane...................................Sheaf arrow +3*

    * Bloodtheft on a natural "20"
    Seems like an interesting list.

    Ancient bump I know, but the topic came up again with some friends.

    Given-
    Lifender (2h great sword) - Blood Enemies - Base Stats (no specials) given
    Sword of the Anuirean Empire (? sword) - Blood Enemies - No stats, but stated it is Tightmaevril
    Coullannwn (parrying dagger) - Book of Priestcraft - All stats given
    Blood Hunger (dagger) - Legends of the Hero Kings - All stats given
    Heart Reaver (spear) - Ruins of Empire - Base Stats (no specials) given

    Rumored-
    Unknown Item - Blood Enemies - Rhoubhe Manslayer - Not mentioned Arrow?
    Unknown Item - Blood Enemies - The Raven - Powerful Dagger
    Basket-hilted Sword - Book of Priestcraft - Rapier/Sabre?
    Bow/Arrows - Blood Enemies - adventurer in Wolfgaard - Bow that shoots arrows of Tighmaevril?

    Candidates-
    Thunderclap (morning star) - Blood Enemies - Nothing mentioned
    The Spear of Destiny (spear) - Blood Enemies - Nothing mentioned

    Other Tighmaevril Items -
    Necklace with 333 pins - Player's Secrets of Talinie - Decorative
    Ring of Ley Use - Book of Magecraft - Magical Ring

    That covers my knowledge.

    I havn't re-read all the books to see if there are any nuggets hidden in there, and I probably have missed at least 1 rumored item from other material.

    I didn't see the Chalice mentioned anywhere for other Tighmaevril items.

    I cannot find my Gorgon's Alliance CD or Cheat Book to check the stats for some of those items (nor check it for any tighmaevril items in it).

    As far as the rumored and other items. I'd believe that the Raven's dagger is not tighmaevril. The basket-hilted sword likely exists...somewhere. The Rhoubhe rumored item is in fact the same as the bow in Wolfgaard I'd bet. My guess is it is likely to be a linked long bow/arrow set, such that the arrow(s) magically return to the bow or some such.

    I would then postulate that there is possibly a Javelin, since it is the only remaining Elven-available weapon from the availability list in the Rulebook. Given that quite a few weapons were made that are not available to elves generally, I'm not sure where to go from there. It stands to reason that there is a good chance that there could be a Flail, Main-gauche, Polearm (Pike or Halberd?), Bastard sword, long sword, or scimitar. The number we commonly believe to be 12 weapons, is not actually a set number. So who knows. It's entirely possible that the 2 candidates I mentioned above are tighmaevril (it would make sense, and let's face it, the Gorgon would probably only keep incredibly powerful weapons near him), it's also possible that several weapons are lost in a dragon or two's horde.

    There is absolutely zero mention of the any elf-held weapons, and since the weapons were originally given to elves...I guess it's possible to disregard most of the above (except the bow/arrow one and maybe the gorgon stuff) and place remaining weapons in the hands (or burial sites) of elves.

    Does anyone have something to add?

    Theres some material I do not have access to, including the magazine articles and the Of Varsks and Winter Witches adventure. I'm also missing the comic book (but it's in the mail after about 8 years of searching).

  2. #2
    Ehrshegh of Spelling Thelandrin's Avatar
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    A five-year-old thread, revived two years ago, definitely comes under Azrai magic regarding threads. I'll split this bit off.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by einstein_pi View Post
    Seems like an interesting list.

    I havn't re-read all the books to see if there are any nuggets hidden in there, and I probably have missed at least 1 rumored item from other material.

    ...

    There is absolutely zero mention of the any elf-held weapons, and since the weapons were originally given to elves...I guess it's possible to disregard most of the above (except the bow/arrow one and maybe the gorgon stuff) and place remaining weapons in the hands (or burial sites) of elves.

    Does anyone have something to add?
    Given that all of them were supposed to be elf-made centuries before humans appeared, I am surprised that so many are in "human" or "modern" styles. IMO, shouldn't they be all of an ancient type, something perhaps not used by humans, or largely elven style? Maybe some in dwarven styles. I'm talking about stuff like a basket-hilted sword, or a flail.


    Theres some material I do not have access to, including the magazine articles and the Of Varsks and Winter Witches adventure. I'm also missing the comic book (but it's in the mail after about 8 years of searching).
    Can you tell me more about those last two works? They do not sound familiar to me.

  4. #4
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 01:08 AM 10/17/2007, Lee wrote:

    >Given that all of them were supposed to be elf-made centuries before
    >humans appeared, I am surprised that so many are in "human" or
    >"modern" styles. IMO, shouldn`t they be all of an ancient type,
    >something perhaps not used by humans, or largely elven style? Maybe
    >some in dwarven styles. I`m talking about stuff like a
    >basket-hilted sword, or a flail.

    IIRC, in a couple cases the items have been reworked, so their
    original elven style would be lost. In cases where that hasn`t
    happened, though, the weapons were most likely elven in style, but we
    should still bear in mind that if the genius Ghoigwnnwd came up with
    a whole new alloy he might very well have been experimenting with
    styles and forms that even the Sidhe might not recognize as belonging
    to their culture.... Then one should take into consideration that
    Sidhe immortality means their culture probably changes very, very
    slowly by human standards, but 2,000 years is still a pretty good
    chunk of time, so even if we assume they are in some sort of elven
    style they`d likely be "antiques" by their own reckoning. At least,
    any of those things might work as rationales for the more "human"
    and/or "modern" styles of the extant weapons.

    Gary

  5. #5
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    Azrai's tendrils are long and time is no barrier to the Shadow!

    Just curious, where did you read about the weapons being re-worked? I believe it was stated elsewhere that part of the weapon's nature is taken from the actual forging process, and that melting them down would be somewhat pointless (Talinie sourcebook perhaps if I recall).

    The 2000 year figure that comes up is something I'd consider loose and not fact. It's known that forging the weapons takes a long time (the Gorgon's sword took what, 200 years or so?). That is just the appearance of Adurian + Khinasi on the continent. As Blood Enemies mentions for Malvaar's realm, there were humans there before. Likewise, theres always the possibility that the Elves had contact with humans in Aduria and other locations, and that there was trading to some extent. Perhaps a stretch, but once again, I'd tend to discount a re-forging. That being said, I'd think it is unlikely that he purposefully created an evil dagger like Blood Hunger, which does make for an interesting discussion in itself. Going back to the 2000 year figure, it is close enough to the flight from the Shadow that he could've still been forging for many centuries after that, which leaves ample time for human influence.

    The weapon forms that we've seen, are to some extent, molded by the dictates of fantasy literature and setting flavor, rather than being strictly Elven in design. If we went with a strict Elven design, I think that a few of those weapons would not exist.


    Lastly, the products I mentioned, are fairly obscure.

    There are several Birthright products most people do not know about. Most people know about Hogunmark, the magazine articles, the books (War in particular), the Prospectus thingie, and the various unpublished (Muden, Regency, etc). There is also a promo comic book called Serpent's Eye. The name is fairly explanatory. There is also a low-volume (think less than 300 if I recall) adventure from RPGA Network/The Adventurer's Guild named Of Varsks and Winter Witches. I've been trying to find that for about 9 years, I've only ever seen 3 for sale, and needless to say, I've either missed them or not been able to pay enough for it. Lastly, there is also a puzzle from a TSR Artwork puzzle series, it depicts The Battle of Sorrow's Field if I recall. Besides that, there are a number of Ral Partha minatures (also hard to find) - although more people seem to know about those than the comic, puzzle, and module. I do not know of anything past that (there might be a retail display, there's the original Legacy of Kings game too from GenCon - but there are what, 1 or 2 copies at most of that in existance).

  6. #6
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    Could a Tighmaevril alloy weapon have been forged but not enchanted? That would leave the enchantment up to the finder. It would of course depend on the process of creation.
    (Dagger case in point)

    That or the metal takes on the powers and characteristics over time that the weilder most desires.

    AKA moonblade.

  7. #7
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    That is an interesting thought about the moonblade. It would certainly make the Gorgon's sword a very interesting weapon.

    The elf-held weapons would likewise, be very interesting.

  8. #8
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    I figure that tighmaevril predates Deismaar so had some ritual or mystical purpose - so a sword might be forged in the tradition of a barbarian tribe (i.e. humans) to symbolise them in a ritual.

    In the case of blood hunger (and other cursed blades) I´d see it as a dagger intended to aid the wielder in, say, severing tangled lines of mebhaighl, being polluted over the years by mis-use as a tool of assasination - or the victim of the taint of Azrai, awnshegh rarely die quietly...

    Also it´s quite possible that Ghiogwynnwd (spelling?) forged weapons for dwarves (in my house campaigns I´d have him ensorcelling weapons forged by a master smith of the dwarves as symbolic of the peace between the races and their union against the goblins). Similarly nothing says that Ghio died - elves can live forever. Perhaps he forged a blade for a human king in return for peace, or for the king swearing to ban logging in the forests...

  9. #9
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    Musings/speculation.

    If tighmaevril is made of rare earth (ores) and to "conduit" blood transfers better than anything else you could assume that it is these special ores are a part of the "land".

    That or if they are made in part of rare starmetal "fallen from the heavens" that godlike essence is more easily transfered by them.

    Prehaps both.

    The characteristics of blood powers could then have partly manifested in these weapons - ie in the battle of diesmar the outflowing of energy manifested in various items on the battle field and the same situation is happening each time (on a much smaller scale) that the weapon is used on a blooded scion - suggesting that once in a while an ability could manifest in a tighmaevril weapon...

    Thoughts?

  10. #10
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    I've always pictured the metal as not being forged from a special ore specifically. This is going to sound funny, it does have unique ore, but nothing to the extent of starmetal or a specific blood silver ore. The actual properties of the weapon are more due to the combination of the smith's process, ore, craftmanship, and inherrant elven nature. Possibly spells as well. Remember, the blood properties are a byproduct of the weapon, as the weapons predate bloodlines*.

    I would speculate that the bloodline stealing nature is more a result of the nature of the weapons. The weapons, in my view, are simply the elven version of masterwork weapons with some extras. I'm thinking Damascus steel or Japanese folded steel weaponry-type stuff. The smith (I am so not going to look up or re-type his name tonight) is a true Elven master. There is nothing unique about that though, and there may very well be other Elven smiths of his quality. The unique part is that he has discovered a particular forging process, involving possibly rare metals (but for sure not going to star metal or such lengths), but also the inherrant connection of the Elves to the land and their magical nature. I'd suggest that the weapons are magical in nature, and that the smith discovered how to imbue the magic of the land in their creation. This may even give the weapons a link to the land's sources in some cases, but in most cases would simply result in the weapon having inherrant magical potential - raw magical potential, that unlike traditional magical weaponry, can be shaped over time by the wielder. This fits the typical view of Elven outlooks and magic perfectly IMO. In the hands of an evil character, it may, for example, attain sentience and the internal magic may be shaped for nefarious purposes. The process would be sped up by bloodtheft most likely.

    Once bloodlines were infused into mortals, then all of the sudden the Tighmaevril weapons functioned as minature capsules of the land. Look at the land's choice options for regency transferral. That is what is going on when slain by one of these weapons, and the recipient is the wielder. All because the weapon, was imbued with a portion of the land's essence.

    At least that's my view on the weaponry, recently formulated of course =P.

    Now, as to the forms of the weapons...I'm still stuck on that one. Given the above, it seems unlikely that the weapon would remain the same if re-forged. Not only would a human (or goblin, dwarven, etc) smith be extremely unlikely to be able to do such a thing, but it's quite likely that the essence of the land would escape or be broken by the reforging process. If Tighmaevril weapons were simply forged from an unique alloy and imbued with a spell, then there would be hundreds throughout the land. That hasn't happened, despite an acute interest no doubt in all of the land's regents - plus their considerable resources behind it. Remember that they managed to create weapons, rings, and armor that all can protect blood/bloodlines in short order...but not a single Tighmaevril item.

    The smith was not only a genius in weapon forging, and most likely a powerful wielder of true magic, but he was likely a person with thousands of years of attunement to the land. What he did would be the elven equivilant of Albert Einstein's works....turned into a single process/rule/theory. Even today, with the incalculable wealth and resources of today's nations thrown behind research into those fields, Einstein managed to trump them all, earlier, faster, with only his own mind...and he's still been proven to be correct. It's possible other Elves, or possibly even Humans, may discover the process and methods on their own. In the case of Elves it is possible it may happen after a century or two of research (it could already have been going on), or in the case of Humans, when an empire assembles a huge cadre of Wizards and Weaponsmiths and tosses immense resources their way.

    That is how I view it at least. Which leaves little room for re-forges. Which means that the weapon forms are as originally intended. Being a weapon-smith, it is likely he had an accute interest in weapons of all sorts, all styles and methods, not just Elven ones. That could explain any decidedly un-elven weaponry. As a true magic wielder who is immortal, he certainly could have had the opportunity to visit other cultures. That being said, most of the weapons thus far have been able to fit, at least partially, into an Elven weapon locker. So who knows. We all may never know. It is worth noting though, that if infused with raw mebhaighl, the weapons, besides just being able to attain sentience and powers in-line with their wielders intentions over time, may be able to partially alter their form. A slender, light Elven longsword may become a bit sturdier and heavier if wielded for centuries by Anuirean Emperors...or an Elven Greatsword by the Gorgon. Blood Hunger would be an extreme example - it could have grown a serrated edge for example.

    Anyways, that is my more recent thoughts. Several comments have made me think quite a bit.

    Edit - I read the wiki article again, it's a good point that the Elves do not seem to have mines. It would lend further credence to my view that it may be rare metals, but not unique. Although, the Elves and dwarves in lore don't seem to interact too much, which would mean that the Elves MUST have gotten all that metal (for their other weapons too) from SOMEWHERE. Likewise, the fae/Shadow World blurb is an interesting viewpoint. Although I'm more inclined to my view (naturally) as mentioned above.
    Last edited by einstein_pi; 10-22-2007 at 08:59 PM.

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