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Thread: Powerful rulers

  1. #1
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    de-lurker activation

    Peter Lubke wrote:

    > . . . MB is about the 8th strongest regent in Anuire (just below
    Gavin Tael but above Mhoried) by my reckoning.

    This raises an interesting discussion topic. What is the general
    consensus of the most powerful rulers of Anuire? Maybe a "top 10"
    list, so to speak. By extension, who would be the most powerful
    rulers in Cerilia? These lists could include Awnsheghlien or not.

    Sir Spud

    re-instating lurker mode :)

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    C & H Callen wrote:

    >de-lurker activation
    >
    >Peter Lubke wrote:
    >
    > > . . . MB is about the 8th strongest regent in Anuire (just below
    >Gavin Tael but above Mhoried) by my reckoning.
    >
    >This raises an interesting discussion topic. What is the general
    >consensus of the most powerful rulers of Anuire? Maybe a "top 10"
    >list, so to speak. By extension, who would be the most powerful
    >rulers in Cerilia? These lists could include Awnsheghlien or not.
    >
    (Aw1) the Gorgon (who else ?) - this one is obvious in all ways
    (Aw2) Rhuobhe - still rates higher than Avan, for several reasons, but
    less obvious
    (Aw3) the Spider - even less obvious but still higher than Avan
    (1) Darien Avan (Prince of Avanil)
    (2) Caliedhie Dosiere (Imperial Chamberlain) *see note 1 below
    (3) Aeric Boeruine (Duke of Boeruine)
    (4) Rhobher Nichaleir (Western Imperial Temple)
    (5) Ghorien Hiriele (Highland Traders, Overland Traders)
    (6) Fhylie (Militant Order of Cuiraecen)
    (7) Gavin Tael (Baron of Ghoere)
    (8) Mheallie Bireon (Stonecrown Coster, Northlands Exchange etc)
    (8) Assan ibn Daouta (Elinie)
    (10) Dhoesone
    (10) Carilon Alam
    (10) Mhoried
    (13) Hierl Diem (Diemed)
    ...
    (Aw4) the Seadrake - it`s hard to rank a creature of the sea against
    those of the land

    Note 1: IMC The Imperial College of Wizardry has HK`s sources in Avanil,
    and CD leads the CoW. This extra boost in power is the dynamic that
    keeps DA from siezing the Iron Throne outright. Without it, Avan
    controls or has the support of Brosengae, Taeghas, Mieres, WIT, (and
    tacitly CJS), and PAI. He`s easily the wealthiest person in Anuire in
    terms of gross income as well.


    Cerilia:

    Elves:
    Most of the Elf realms have powerful leaders, and elves while not
    numerous are powerful still. They do not make the top 10 however except
    the Sayer of Coullabhie and Llaeddra of LLuabraight.

    Rjurik:
    None of the Rjurik feature really except the massive faith of Erik.

    In Brechtur, the big boys are Erik Danig (Danigau) and Richard Tahlbehr
    (Muden). These are powerful realms (especially Muden) even if the Havens
    sourcebook is accepted as strongly biased. Power in Muden is shared
    however, and neither is quite up to matching the Anuireans. Strangely,
    no guild is very strong or rich at all. As a power in the world the
    Swordhawk is worthy of a place in the Awnsgegh top 10.

    Vos:
    The Vos suffer from the same fate as the Rjurik, they are scattered and
    do not unite well. There are several mid-level powers in the Vos but
    none worthy of a top 10 place.

    Khinasi:
    The most powerful individual in the Khinasi lands is like Anuire, an
    awnshegh - the Serpent. This beastie is bad bad bad - never
    underestimate this slippery dude. Djafra could be really powerful if
    united. Khourane and min Dhousai in the older Khinasi areas are strong
    in ways the plains states can only imagine. Still no top 10 contenders
    here either.

    Dwarves:
    Kheleb-Izhil is an unknown, has it prospered or withered ? (Has anyone
    noticed than dwarven realms are always close to water, sometimes a lake
    even ?) Apart from that uncertainty, dwarves are powerful in relation to
    their size (a pun yes, but not just a pun) but there are no towering
    giants (punny again). No dwarves make the top 10 either.

    Goblins, Gnolls, Orog etc:
    Kal-Kalathar is a stand out, but the ruler is weaker than most human
    rulers. Still, he gets a place.

    Awsheghlien top 5
    (1) the Gorgon
    (2) the Serpent
    (3) Swordhawk
    (4) Magian
    (5) Rhuobhe

    Cerilian Top 10 (sans Awnsheghlien)
    (1) Darien Avan (Prince of Avanil)
    (2) Caliedhie Dosiere (Imperial Chamberlain)
    ® Gunther Brandt (Oaken Grove of Erik/Aeric)
    (3) Aeric Boeruine (Duke of Boeruine)
    (4) Rhobher Nichaleir (Western Imperial Temple)
    (5) Ghorien Hiriele (Highland Traders, Overland Traders)
    (E) Llaeddra (Lluabraight)
    (E) Sayer of Coullabhie
    (G) Kal-Kalathor
    (B) Erik Danig (Danigau)

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    Peter sez:
    > Note 1: IMC The Imperial College of Wizardry has HK`s sources
    > in Avanil, and CD leads the CoW. This extra boost in power is
    > the dynamic that keeps DA from siezing the Iron Throne
    > outright. Without it, Avan controls or has the support of
    > Brosengae, Taeghas, Mieres, WIT, (and tacitly CJS), and PAI.
    > He`s easily the wealthiest person in Anuire in terms of gross
    > income as well.

    I don`t recall anyhting in the sources suggesting that the Chamberlain
    leads the CoS/W.
    In fact, I rather suspect that he keeps the extent of his powers secret.
    Is it written somewhere and have I missed it?

    --
    John Machin
    (trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
    -----------------------------------
    "Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
    Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

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    John 'Trithemius' Machin
    The Other John From Dunedin (now in Canberra)
    "Power performs the Miracle." - Johannes Trithemius

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    John Machin wrote:

    >Peter sez:
    >
    >>Note 1: IMC The Imperial College of Wizardry has HK`s sources
    >>in Avanil, and CD leads the CoW. This extra boost in power is
    >>the dynamic that keeps DA from siezing the Iron Throne
    >>outright. Without it, Avan controls or has the support of
    >>Brosengae, Taeghas, Mieres, WIT, (and tacitly CJS), and PAI.
    >>He`s easily the wealthiest person in Anuire in terms of gross
    >>income as well.
    >>
    >
    >I don`t recall anyhting in the sources suggesting that the Chamberlain
    >leads the CoS/W.
    >In fact, I rather suspect that he keeps the extent of his powers secret.
    >Is it written somewhere and have I missed it?
    >
    ^^^ IMC (In My Campaign) -- nothing you`ve missed

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  5. #5
    Senior Member Trithemius's Avatar
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    > ^^^ IMC (In My Campaign) -- nothing you`ve missed

    Ah. Okay :)

    Why did you go with that, might I ask. Surely keeping track of fractious
    Anuirean nobles is bad enough without also having to keep track of
    fractious Anuirean magi as well?

    --
    John Machin
    (trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
    -----------------------------------
    "Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
    Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

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    John 'Trithemius' Machin
    The Other John From Dunedin (now in Canberra)
    "Power performs the Miracle." - Johannes Trithemius

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    John Machin wrote:

    >>^^^ IMC (In My Campaign) -- nothing you`ve missed
    >>
    >
    >Ah. Okay :)
    >
    >Why did you go with that, might I ask. Surely keeping track of fractious
    >Anuirean nobles is bad enough without also having to keep track of
    >fractious Anuirean magi as well?
    >

    Ah .. it was a "power in the west" thing. (as well as a curb on Avan)

    Khorien is really too powerful to be a Vassal of Avan under standard
    rules (47 RP and heaps of GB not to mention loads of source). It`s
    difficult to see how Avan could have brought the situation about, in
    fact, Avan as described by RoE couldn`t really NOT be Emperor under
    standard rules -- he has so much RP GB Vassals etc that Boeruine and
    Ghoere together are just gnats in comparison. On the other hand Rhuobhe
    has very few sources considering that he`s been around as long as he
    has, has it in for the humans as much as he has etc. So really, I`m just
    trying to power down Avan to the point where he is the premier (highest)
    regent in Anuire, but can`t force his way immediately to the Iron throne.

    My modified rules for RP collection and gold collection change the
    situation to the point that you can understand Khorien`s dilemma (he has
    almost no income and a vast network of sources to maintain as well as an
    entire realm), but do not stop Avanil from taking the Iron throne -
    although he is now matched against a greatly improved Dosiere, Dosiere
    can`t match Avan militarilly. Powering up the CoS (by adding the sources
    in Avanil that HK can`t maintain - which alleviates some of HKs pain),
    and allying them to CD is a foil to DAs superior military might. (Not
    that he might not be able to force the Iron throne still, but it would
    definately cost him dearly - perhaps too dearly)

    By powering up Rhuobhe (adding several sources to his domain from
    Taeghas and Boeruine), it really introduces a significant power shift on
    the Western Coast. Avan`s influence on the law of Taeghas and Brosengae
    is very significant still - effectively limiting Taeghan tax collection
    to a bare handful of GB. Brosengae has significant guild and trade to
    balance this, while Taeghas must hold power by virtue of his source
    holdings alone. Boeruine can`t infiltrate Taeghas easilly because of
    Avan`s law holdings - he`s up against superior RP and GB (i.e. he`s up
    against DA and not HK) so the HK "power down" doesn`t really hurt as
    much as it would appear.

    The great dificulty with Magi is that they are usually pretty poor. They
    also are more "hands on" in the running and building of their domain.
    With Magi, it`s a personal thing - and a secretive thing. In terms of
    source magic, it`s primarilly defensive in nature - although less so
    than temple magic - it`s easier to defend with it than to attack.

    HK`s realm is pretty undeveloped, he has no law to speak of, and
    powerful neighbors around. Taeghas has good potential and would be far
    better off under a non-wizard regent with a court wizard - if fact my
    first thoughts were to have HK abdicate the realm in favor of a cousin
    (releasing Taeghas from DAs grasp), and become court wizard to the
    cousin - creating a boost in RP overall.

    So as to Magi, their interaction is on a more personal level than that
    of regents with realms, (or even faith or guild regents for that
    matter). Their affiliation with realm regents is more a matter of
    convenience (GB) than power. In Anuire there are few powerful sources
    and these tend to be scattered (with the exception of the area around
    Rhuobhe), so a mage will tend to build a network of ley lines based on
    just one or two powerful sources. [Elves IMC can`t create ley lines -
    but then they don`t need to, their sources are usually high in power in
    any case]

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    My view on the most powerful regents.

    Top 10 in Anuire, excluding Awnsheghliens

    1) Avanil
    2) Boeruine
    3) Ghoere
    4) Western Imperial Temple
    5) Mhaellie Bireon
    6) Militant Order of Cuiraécen
    7) Talinie
    8) Sword Mage
    9) Endier
    10) Tuarhievel

    Top 5 Awnsheghs on Cerilia

    1) Gorgon
    2) Raven
    3) Magian
    4) Serpent
    5) Rhuobhe

    Top 10 Realms on Cerilia:

    1) Avanil
    2) Gorgon
    3) Boeruine
    4) Raven
    5) Magian
    6) Ghoere
    7) Muden
    8) Min Dhousai
    9) Danigau
    10) Kal Kalathor

    Btw, the reason I rate Avanil higher than the Gorgon is essentially because of the power derived from Avanil's diplomacy. The Gorgon isn't exactly in a position to make a lot of diplomacy.
    Respectfully submitted,

    Temujin,
    Would-be ruler of you all. =)

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    On Fri, 2002-05-17 at 13:47, brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG wrote:
    > Temujin wrote:
    > My view on the most powerful regents.
    >
    > Top 10 in Anuire, excluding Awnsheghliens
    >
    > 1) Avanil
    > 2) Boeruine
    > 3) Ghoere
    > 4) Western Imperial Temple
    > 5) Mhaellie Bireon
    > 6) Militant Order of Cuiraécen
    > 7) Talinie
    > 8) Sword Mage
    > 9) Endier
    > 10) Tuarhievel

    why no Ghorien Hiriele (Highland/Overland Traders) ?

    >
    > Top 5 Awnsheghs on Cerilia
    >
    > 1) Gorgon
    > 2) Raven
    > 3) Magian
    > 4) Serpent
    > 5) Rhuobhe
    >
    > Top 10 Realms on Cerilia:
    >
    > 1) Avanil
    > 2) Gorgon
    > 3) Boeruine
    > 4) Raven
    > 5) Magian
    > 6) Ghoere
    > 7) Muden
    > 8) Min Dhousai
    > 9) Danigau10) Kal Kalathor

    >
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    Orginally posted by Peter Lubke
    why no Ghorien Hiriele (Highland/Overland Traders) ?
    He's a puppet. A powerful puppet you might say, but most of his power is derived from him serving Ghoere. I consider both Mhaellie Bireon and Guilder Kalien to be more dangerous guilders, in part because of their independence from landed rulers, and in part because they are both very clever regents capable of out-maneuvering others through their dirty plots :) As far as Anuire goes, few other guild regents are in their league. Ghorien Hiriele is not one of them.
    Respectfully submitted,

    Temujin,
    Would-be ruler of you all. =)

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    The College is actually run by a ten member council whose chairperson is a 19the leven Enchantress that supposedly is immortal (Book of Magecraft)

    Top 10 Awnies
    1) Gorgon, hands down
    2) Magian
    3) Raven
    4) Serpent
    5) White Witch
    6) Swordhawk
    7) Chimaera
    8) Sphinx
    9) Rhuobhe
    10) Spider

    Top 10 non Awnies

    1) Lluabright
    2) Kal Kalathor
    3) Avanil
    4) Boeruine
    5) Ghoere
    6) Danigau
    7) Muden
    8) Aftane
    9) Zoloskaya
    10) Either one of the two main Erik faiths

    On top of all: Gorgon, noone above him

    First of all, I shall explain why Avanil is not as powerful as people say. If you read at Mieres and Brosengae you will read that they will leave the Prince at any time. They are not trusted allies or vassals, so don't count on them. The trusted ally is Taeghas, just like Talinie is for Boeruine. Apart from that the Boeruines have a past of making deals with Thurazor (read the Iron Throne)

    Now, why is Taeghas a vassal? Because the regent is a rather bored mage. He wants to be left alone to research and he does not care about his people. Well, Avan does.

    Now the Gorgon. Count vassals/allies
    Markazor
    Mur Kilad
    Kiergard
    the Fingers of Azrai
    that awnie guilder he has

    All those plus the VAST Gorgon's Crown and the rather weak Giantdowns neighbour and the Brecht neighbours, plus the isolated, too-racist-to-ask-help Sielwode, make excellent expansion ground. Add in the sheer power of the Gorgon himself as a mage and there you have it.

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