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  1. #1

    Quesitons regarding BRCS.

    In chapt 5 it says that a character cannot collect more than twice their bloodline score in RP per turn.

    In chapt 2 it says that a character can only collect as many RP per turn as their bloodline score(E.G. 50 bloodline score = 50 max rp per turn).Which is correct?

    Chapt 2 says the max reserve is 2x the bloodline score,chapt 5 says 5 times.

    Also lietenants no longer get any actions for a domain turn,right?

    For HP bonuses due to RP gain,does it mean the RP you collect per domain turn,or RP gained from events,etc?Also it is half your bloodline score,correct?

    Btw D20 atlas is mentioned a few times.What is it?

  2. #2
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    In chapt 5 it says that a character cannot collect more than twice their bloodline score in RP per turn.



    In chapt 2 it says that a character can only collect as many RP per turn as their bloodline score(E.G. 50 bloodline score = 50 max rp per turn).Which is correct?



    Chapt 2 says the max reserve is 2x the bloodline score, chapt 5 says 5 times.




    Chap 5 has not been revised yet – so all rules contained in Chap 2 (revised and sanctioned) are the governing authority on bloodlines and anything pertaining to them.





    Also lietenants no longer get any actions for a domain turn, right?






    Correct as written no free action from Lts.



    A domain gets 3 standard actions per season. Each character gets 3 character actions per season (including Lts).



    These actions can be done by the regent, his Lt or with no oversight. Basically to gain the benefits of a regent’s skill modifiers (i.e., his skill check) he has to use a character action in combination with the standard action. A Lt can apply his skills in the same manner since he is “designated” to carry the same weight as the regent (e.g., speak for him).





    Lieutenants

    The court of a powerful regent may have many trusted courtiers, but most courtiers have strictly defined responsibilities and checks and balances to keep them from overstepping their prerogatives. A domain's regent may, however, name one or more of his courtiers as his lieutenant(s). A domain's lieutenants are authorized to speak with the voice of the regent, even to the extent of waging war against a foreign nation, spending significant portions of the realms treasury, dispensing justice, making binding agreements, and other activities that are generally considered the prerogative of the regent alone. Thus a lieutenant can perform most domain actions with the same advantages that a regent receives when personally attending to domain actions and events. Refer to Chapter Eight: Outside the lines for more details on Lieutenants.










    For HP bonuses due to RP gain, does it mean the RP you collect per domain turn,or RP gained from events, etc? Also it is half your bloodline score, correct?




    The limit is half your bloodline score (and then only if you have at least 1 level of scion class).



    It does not say or address where the RP comes from – so it can come from anywhere – although the maximum limit for hit points always applies.





    Btw D20 atlas is mentioned a few times. What is it?




    There is an entire section dedicated to discussion of the d20 Atlas. Basically it is to contain all of the non-rules stuff. Sort of a combination of the player’s secrets books and the various expansions (Ruins of Empire, Cities in the Sun, etc.)



    The first section (Anuire) is mostly completed as I understand it. Raesene Andu is in charge of that project.

    Duane Eggert

  3. #3
    What is this maximum limit for hitpoinst?

  4. #4
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Question
    What is this maximum limit for hitpoinst?
    From Chap 2 under scion class:

    Bonus Hit Points:
    A scion receives bonus hit points each season based on the amount of RP he receives up to a maximum of one-half his blood score, rounded down – minimum of one.



    This is a bonus that is added to any hitpoints the character has due to class and other modifiers (either feats or Con bonuses). This is a class ability so only characters with levels in the scion class get this bonus.
    Duane Eggert

  5. #5
    Huh that seems a little odd to me.So since RP from collection can be counted as bonus hitpoints doesnt that mean a 50 bloodline score regent collecting 50 RPs per season gets 25 bonus HP every season, to the tune of 100 HP per year?That doesnt seem right.

  6. #6
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Question
    Huh that seems a little odd to me.So since RP from collection can be counted as bonus hitpoints doesnt that mean a 50 bloodline score regent collecting 50 RPs per season gets 25 bonus HP every season, to the tune of 100 HP per year? That doesnt seem right.
    No that is not what it means.

    The bonus changes with conditions and is not a cumulative thing.

    So if a regent increases his regency (i.e. rule and influence) it is reflected with a higher hit point total while if he lowers his regency (i.e., lower influence) his hit point total is less.

    This number is reset on a seasonal basis and is awarded at the start of each season (that is the intent).

    In order to get the full 25 hit point bonus the regent in question would have to have sufficient holdings (and possibly tribute) to receive 50 RP a season.
    Duane Eggert

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by irdeggman

    Correct as written no free action from Lts.



    A domain gets 3 standard actions per season. Each character gets 3 character actions per season (including Lts).



    These actions can be done by the regent, his Lt or with no oversight. Basically to gain the benefits of a regent’s skill modifiers (i.e., his skill check) he has to use a character action in combination with the standard action. A Lt can apply his skills in the same manner since he is “designated” to carry the same weight as the regent (e.g., speak for him).
    I have always been a bit concerned about this. It's a bit complicated, but bear with me here... there is a problem, then a solution. I was wondering how many of you out there have encountered something like this before...

    First: Let us assume you are a scion w/o any holdings. Let us then assume that through some time in game, you acquire a massive fortune. Oh... let's say 20 GB worth, through adventuring over a fair career. You have won and lost battles, had PCs come and go through the group, even have a magic item or two (I run a REALLY low magic BR) within the group.

    You then decide, it is time to start that realm of yours. You create a law 0. You are now, officially, a realm ruler, the moment you create a holding. Thus, you can now do your 3 actions a turn. However, the very act of creating that law 0 was NOT a character action, it was a realm action... which you are not entitled to, because you aren't a ruler. Yet, clearly, others have started their realms from "scratch". So, you must be able to. And if a PC can do it, then an NPC must be able to as well.

    It gets worse. You have... oh, let's say 3 blooded henchmen/followers that accompanied you on all those grandiose adventures from the old days. You lend them money, so that each of them can build MORE level 0 holdings, then rule them up. Admittedly, they are holdings of their own, but you entrust that they will be loyal to you. That they will be "vassals". At this point, theoretically, they could be construed as either new, independent characters/rulers, or they could still be lieutenants. For the sake of simplicity, they are new vassals of yours.

    Obviously, as you can tell, this did happen in an adventuring campaign I was running for BR. The player "founded" a new realm... and overthrew the current ruler of a few of their provinces. Basically, the realm was split in two. Then, the player, wanting to destabilize the other (NPC) ruler, asked why they couldn't use their lt. for extra actions, as obviously, they were capable of working independently. I went with the rules, and the player got frustrated. Mainly, his plan was to send his lt's in, under his regency protection (throwing his RPs at countering the NPC's espionage actions to assasinate/law holding's attempts to arrest), and have the three of them EACH build level 0 law holdings, then begin contesting the law of the current ruler... and using their law holdings to reduce domain attitude every turn (just by being hostile to them)... even throwing in "free" agitates via the lead skill. Obviously, this would mean that the player would be getting 12 actions a turn, against the NPC ruler's 3. No contest there, so I knew that it had to be blocked.

    Again, though, the player asked why it couldn't happen. After all, they were acting in his orders... The player got frustrated, as to him, it did not make any sense. So frustrated that it began to infect the other player's; after all, no player likes to be told when asked why they can't do something "It's the rules."

    Finally, I realized there was a way to do this. If the player did a ceremony and invested each as being a vassal of his, giving them RP as well as an initial allotment of GB, they could go, and start performing the actions. It kept them NPC, with their own desires and mandates, which allowed them to occasionally to do an action of their own, rather than what they were "ordered" to do by their PC ruler. However, the odd thing was that the player was investing vassals that had NO holdings to begin with, only once they started to build them. An odd situation, to be sure, and not something that I could find really covered as an example in the rule set.

    In the end, it didn't matter. The player was... cheap... with his RP endowments on the new vassals, and while new level 0 holdings were started, the NPC ruler quickly rooted 2 out of 3 out with a combination of espionage actions and agitate (turned the local populace against the one, and the mob got ahold of him), and eliminated them (one was bloodthefted, the mob tore apart the other guy). The third managed to take an additional, low level, province away from the ruler, and became a Count under the PC ruler. However, he was never quite the same, not trusting the PC ruler so much, after seeing two of his other companions killed because the PC didn't support them properly... and so the stage was set for future relations between vassal and liege...

    So, back to what I was saying.... the problem here with the Lt. no (extra) action rule: that they are only capable of making character actions, unless they act in the regent's stead. Obviously, Lt's must be able to make regent actions, because they could always choose to become independent... but doing so, they must either become vassals, or become a new, independent realm.

    Obviously, the game chooses to abstract many things. Players will often wonder why they can't get extra actions when a lieutenant is acting independently... so, now you have a way to justify it, without just citing the rules as I did initially, which I hated doing.

    I think this was a cautionary tale... but it had a happy ending. Still, it also makes for some interesting points, such as:

    Keep your Lt's busy with character actions. If you don't, they have time off, and that can be used for their own actions. They may have time, and the money, to create a holding of their own. Later in the game, another NPC blooded follower created a level 0 law holding in a neighbouring realm, which sparked a war...

    Releasing Lts with loads of money into a realm can cause great damage... if they aren't captured (with GB intact for the capturer). However, they aren't truly reporting to you...

    Lastly, Lt's often are played as extensions of the regent's character. However, a wise player should remember that a crafty DM will give the Lt their own desires and wishes, that may conflict with your own (even when you are the same alignment). Thus, see the first point: keep 'em busy!

  8. #8
    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    Just thinking about this from the point-of-view of the "spirit of the rules" (or my interpretation of what is Birthright) I would think that holders of 0 level holdings can't really do realm actions because the holdings don't yet have enough notoriety/influence/reputation to do such actions. If you were a director from a big company and the owner of a couple of corner stores wanted to do a business deal with, would you care? If a number of unknown clerics were walking around town trying to convince you that the local Count was a devil in disguise, would you listen? While I can see no problems with starting up 0 level holdings, getting them to level 1 should be extremely hard as you will be working against established institutions.... perhaps being limited to only 1 realm action per round, or not being able to execute all listed realm actions until the holding is level 1 (e.g. can only agitate at level 1).

    Just a thought.

    Sorontar
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  9. #9
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    You then decide, it is time to start that realm of yours. You create a law 0. You are now, officially, a realm ruler, the moment you create a holding.




    Good point. Create Holding should probably have an annotation about this. Although in 2nd ed basically someone else created the holding for a character and then invested him with it. That could still serve as the default. Also any regent with similar holdings or the province ruler can oppose said action and the non-regent scion attempting to create the holding has no RP with which to modify the success roll.



    Create Holding [Standard; Administrate; 1 GB]

    A regent wishing to establish a holding in a province where he has no holdings of a specific type may attempt to create a holding (0). Once created, the regent is free to Rule the holding to a higher level (if the province level permits such growth) or to contest existing holdings in order to increase the influence of his holdings.

    The base DC for the domain action check is 10. As usual for standard domain actions, holdings of the same type as you are attempting to create may apply their level as a bonus or penalty to the action check. In addition, however, law holdings may apply their levels as a bonus or penalty to the action check if the target holding is a guild or temple. As usual, all regents with a presence in the province may bid RP to support or oppose the check




    So it is very hard for a scion to create a holding without having any RP without the support of the province ruler and/or other non-landed regents in the province.



    It gets worse. You have... oh, let's say 3 blooded henchmen/followers that accompanied you on all those grandiose adventures from the old days. You lend them money, so that each of them can build MORE level 0 holdings, then rule them up. Admittedly, they are holdings of their own, but you entrust that they will be loyal to you. That they will be "vassals". At this point, theoretically, they could be construed as either new, independent characters/rulers, or they could still be lieutenants. For the sake of simplicity, they are new vassals of yours.




    Oops – there are no henchmen anymore and in order to gain followers you either need to use one of the options in Chap 8 or have the Leadership feat.



    Obviously, as you can tell, this did happen in an adventuring campaign I was running for BR. The player "founded" a new realm... and overthrew the current ruler of a few of their provinces. Basically, the realm was split in two. Then, the player, wanting to destabilize the other (NPC) ruler, asked why they couldn't use their lt. for extra actions, as obviously, they were capable of working independently. I went with the rules, and the player got frustrated. Mainly, his plan was to send his lt's in, under his regency protection (throwing his RPs at countering the NPC's espionage actions to assasinate/law holding's attempts to arrest), and have the three of them EACH build level 0 law holdings, then begin contesting the law of the current ruler... and using their law holdings to reduce domain attitude every turn (just by being hostile to them)... even throwing in "free" agitates via the lead skill. Obviously, this would mean that the player would be getting 12 actions a turn, against the NPC ruler's 3. No contest there, so I knew that it had to be blocked.




    Well in order to get the “free” agitate action the character must be performing another action at the time in the location in question. So the Lt is using his character action to be there.



    A regent can “give” his Lt RP and GB to perform a domain action in his name but this applies to only 1 domain action per month. If a regent or Lt is personally performing the domain action (i.e., a full action) which is a combination of standard and domain actions then (and only then) can all of the regent (or Lt) skill modifiers be added to the check – otherwise it is a straight d20 modified only by RP and holding levels (not counting opposing/supporting regents).



    Standard domain action
    : Each domain normally is allowed one standard domain action per domain round. A regent's standard domain action represents the primary focus or goal of the regent's court and agents for the domain round. The regent need not be physically present for his domain to take a standard action; only routine communication is required. If the regent is unable to communicate to his realm, the character's player should still be allowed to select a reasonable domain action for the domain that represents the court's attempts to maintain the realm in the regent's absence. A regent's court can be reasonably expected to perform the same actions as the regent would; a regent's courtiers make it their business to have a fair idea of the regent's opinions on important matters. A regent can spend regency to support his domain's standard domain actions, regardless of his personal involvement.








    Again, though, the player asked why it couldn't happen. After all, they were acting in his orders... The player got frustrated, as to him, it did not make any sense. So frustrated that it began to infect the other player's; after all, no player likes to be told when asked why they can't do something "It's the rules."




    The answer is simple – each realm gets exactly 3 domain actions per season and no more. It doesn’t matter if a Lt is performing them or the regent himself there is an absolute limit to the number of domain actions a realm can have per season. The Lt is “acting for” and with “full authority” of the regent. If 2 persons are doing this at the same time, well it just doesn’t make sense does it? Part of performing a domain action is accessing things that are provided by the court and they only have so many resources to go around.

    Think of it as akin to the absolute limit to the number of attacks a character can get a round based on his BAB. Non-epic it is 4 in his primary hand (not counting haste or other modifiers).




    Finally, I realized there was a way to do this. If the player did a ceremony and invested each as being a vassal of his, giving them RP as well as an initial allotment of GB, they could go, and start performing the actions. It kept them NPC, with their own desires and mandates, which allowed them to occasionally to do an action of their own, rather than what they were "ordered" to do by their PC ruler. However, the odd thing was that the player was investing vassals that had NO holdings to begin with, only once they started to build them. An odd situation, to be sure, and not something that I could find really covered as an example in the rule set.




    IMO vassals are no longer under the PC’s control and are instead NPCs controlled by the DM. They may have some sort of loyalty but the fact that they now have power and responsibilities to the land and people under their rule supersede their former “loyalty” to the PC regent.




    So, back to what I was saying.... the problem here with the Lt. no (extra) action rule: that they are only capable of making character actions, unless they act in the regent's stead. Obviously, Lt's must be able to make regent actions, because they could always choose to become independent... but doing so, they must either become vassals, or become a new, independent realm.




    Yes if they become regents they are no longer Lts and hence (IMO) not under the player’s control.



    Obviously, the game chooses to abstract many things.


    I think this was a cautionary tale... but it had a happy ending. Still, it also makes for some interesting points, such as:



    Keep your Lt's busy with character actions.


    Releasing Lts with loads of money into a realm can cause great damage... if they aren't captured (with GB intact for the capturer). However, they aren't truly reporting to you...



    However, a wise player should remember that a crafty DM will give the Lt their own desires and wishes, that may conflict with your own (even when you are the same alignment). Thus, see the first point: keep 'em busy!




    Always good advice.



    Note that an agitate action can be “opposed” by the active regent using GB to modify the check also RP may also be spent to oppose (or support the check). Also domain attitude is only changed once per season (at the beginning) so there are pretty sever limitations on how much influence outside agitators can have on the attitude via agitation.
    Duane Eggert

  10. #10
    Huh RP can be used in agitate?I dont recall seeing the "you are allowed to use RP...." line in chapt 5,only for GB.

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