Quote Originally Posted by Sorontar View Post
Sorry, I have been busy with RL as well.
No worries, i understand that all too well. Heh.

It seems that we disagree on whether the Guilder needs a core combat-related feature, so I am thinking that perhaps I should try and work out a combat-focussed subclass/guilder path instead.
Yeah, i don't see the guilder as being combat-centric by default. I much prefer the idea of making it a path. As Cerilia is a continent often at war, it seems reasonable that some guilders may apply their skills to battle either for personal or national interests, and in a context other than "arms dealer" (which would be covered by other paths). There is profit in conquest, perhaps?

And, as this is a 5e conversion, and all classes are more combat-centric ("balanced"... blah), it would make sense in that from a mechanics standpoint too, i suppose.

So far we have
  • Trader - Good at negotiation and finding value
  • Delver - Good at finding and recognising secrets and treasures
  • Explorer - Good at travelling and mapping
  • Manager - Good at understanding and managing people and resources


My idea is to add a fifth one, based around a guilder being good at stand-over tactics, etc - the Enforcer (I am sure there might be a better term, but I can't think of it).
"Enforcer" sounds like a thug from the thieves' guild. What about just "tactician"? Though perhaps we should sort out what he can do before deciding on the name.

They want to be able to look and sound threatening/intimidating/a challenge to any opposition when adventuring, as well as be able to do something about it. This requires business knowledge (knowing which weakness of the opposition to target), skills at persuasion and deception (coercion/calling their bluff), and good weapon proficiencies/feats/features (doing what "needs to be done"). They are not a fighter, but they should be better at fighting than the Trader subclass.
So you're envisioning recognizing weaknesses, that could work. And giving them a combat style would also work. I'm not sure yet for the other two path abilities... still thinking on those. (More below.)

I am thinking that we can try to adapt some from the rogue subclasses or make some new ones. However, you have previously said (when you announced this 5E class in http://www.birthright.net/forums/sho...ll=1#post92275 ) "I don't think the Rogue class captures the essence of the Guilder. Rogues are too focused on subterfuge and backstabs, and a guilder does not need to be like that."
I still stand by that. The focus of the guilder should not be stealth and subterfuge. That said, one or two abilities for a specific path might makes sense. I'm not sure what rogue abilities would apply for this new path, however. I'll have to read up on that.

At this stage, I am thinking something defensive (maybe about Disengage, ie., a tactical withdrawl/getting out of trouble, rather than being sneaky), something about advantage/disadvantage, something about attack or damage, something that helps/works with team members (it could be allowing someone-else to disengage or get advantage by distracting the opposition).
With regards to this, i'm not sufficiently familiar with 5e combat options. I'm good with the guilder-tactician having some extra combat bonuses, but i don't think it should be anything that a fighter could not do. So does the fighter or other warrior types have access to any of those sorts of benefits like you list here?

Fizz, do you have any suggestions? Or is that not a good theme for a Guilder subclass? If so, what would a guilder who is good at fighting mean to you? Anyone else is welcome to join the conversation.
My line of thinking for this path seems to be towards the military side of things, with a touch of individual combat bonus as a side-effect of that. So how does a guilder contribute to a military organization? Or, how does a guilder contribute to an adventuring party in a militaristic way (not hack'n'slash)?

Per earlier, i think we have the makings of two abilities.

1: Combat style. There are other classes that receive this, and it's a nice offensive boost that won't outshine true warriors.

2: Evaluate foes: In C&C, the assassin class has an ability called Case Target, which lets the character evaluate and learn the weaknesses of a would-be mark. For example, they can estimate the target's level / hit dice, condition, any hidden weapons, etc. This could be adapted to groups of enemies (evaluating the hoard of goblins before you).

But we'd still need a couple of ideas that help in combat which aren't necessarily just about doing damage. Perhaps i'm trying to be too clever; trying to think of something that is themeatic and not just another +x bonus. Heh.


-Fizz