Of Divinity and Bloodlines...

[Fizz]

Mostly I just noticed the discrepancy between the BoR saying scions with True bloodlines were present at Deismaar and the Roele bloodline preserving the True bloodline through generations of scions who were not at Deismaar. Small editing error, really.

I'm not sure what discrepancy or editing error you mean. The Core Rulebook says True links originate from the champions of Deismaar, and said champion must either be alive or have passed the line to his direct descendents. Isn't this all consistent?

-Fizz

[Fizz]

Fizz, I understand your logic but I do not see how it agrees with the RAW. It seems like you are extrapolating based on what you think it should be rather than what is actually written. There's nothing I can find in the original rules - ever - that says one must have a bloodline strength equal to or greater than one's bloodline powers.

Well, i decided see if i could find any precedent one way or the other. That is- an established character that has a blood ability whose power is ranked "higher" than their bloodline strength. In other words, I wanted to find someone who has a Great ability even if they have have a Major or Minor bloodline.

And the very first one i found... Grimm Graybeard. Atlas of Cerilia says he has a Major bloodline, but has the blood ability of Courage (Great). One page away, Nadia Vasily has Travel (Great) even though she has a Major bloodline. And another page away, Shaemes Lavalier has Animal Affinity (Major) though his bloodline is Minor.

So it would appear your interpration is supported by actual characters. I must have noticed this in the past, as i've used all those characters, but forgotten it somewhere along the way.

Bugger.


-Fizz

[Malphas]

The strength of a blood ability is not related to the strength of the scion's bloodline though. In the 2e rulebook a minor scion can have Major powers, and a major scion can have Great powers.
Through advancing the blood, even a tainted scion could have Great powers but still be tainted.

yea that's not fully true. some abilities have a minimum requirement. the one that comes to mind without looking through lists (mainly due to frustration of rolling it for illegible candidates) is major resistance (magic). despite naming conventons this ability is only available in minor form for scions of great bloodline. a tad confusing and somewhat annoying.

of somewhat lesser note bloodline strength also has some effect on lieutenant acquisition but that is of lesser consern.

as far as book of regency is concerned i read (and quoted in my example) what they wrote about the issue. didn't fully answer my questions so i thought to see what the general idea was.

[Magnus Argent]

yea that's not fully true. some abilities have a minimum requirement. the one that comes to mind without looking through lists (mainly due to frustration of rolling it for illegible candidates) is major resistance (magic). despite naming conventons this ability is only available in minor form for scions of great bloodline. a tad confusing and somewhat annoying.

of somewhat lesser note bloodline strength also has some effect on lieutenant acquisition but that is of lesser consern.

as far as book of regency is concerned i read (and quoted in my example) what they wrote about the issue. didn't fully answer my questions so i thought to see what the general idea was.

Major Resistance (Magic) works the same regardless of a scion's bloodline strength. What gives you the impression otherwise?

[Malphas]

Major Resistance (Magic) works the same regardless of a scion's bloodline strength. What gives you the impression otherwise?

quote verbatim blood enemies p127
major resistance
<...>
Magic:<...>
Note: this ability is only accessible to those of great bloodline rank or higher, and can be accessed only at minor rank (25% magic resistance)
<...>

seems difficult to misinterpret this one TBH.

[Magnus Argent]

quote verbatim blood enemies p127
major resistance
<...>
Magic:<...>
Note: this ability is only accessible to those of great bloodline rank or higher, and can be accessed only at minor rank (25% magic resistance)
<...>

seems difficult to misinterpret this one TBH.

I never judge people for misinterpreting the rules. Nobody is perfect.

In this case, I don't think you misinterpreted anything. But the book of Regency presents revised rules that supersede this requirement.

Other forms of Major Resistance can be gained as a minor bloodline ability, a major bloodline ability, or a great bloodline ability. They give 25%, 50% and 75% protection as minor, major, and great abilities, respectively. Major Resistance (Magic), however, can only be accessed as a great bloodline ability. Also, unlike the other forms of Major Resistance, even as a great bloodline ability, it only grants 25% Magic Resistance.

The text also states that this is a rare ability and likely found in no more than one family or bloodline. It was clearly the intent to make MR available only on a very limited basis.

At first glance, 25% resistance as a great bloodline ability sounds like a bad deal when compared to the 75% resistance offered by other forms of the bloodline ability. I don't know if you've played AD&D 2nd edition, however.. in 2E, Magic Resistance was a big deal. To put it into perspective, Titania, Queen of the Seelie Faeries of the Shadow World and last of the the mythical race of Sie has a magic resistance of 50%. An Old Cerilian Dragon has a Magic Resistance of 35%. The Spider, who has Invulnerability, Regeneration, Major Regeneration (all ranked as Great) has a Magic Resistance of 15%. Liches, arguably one of the most powerful forms of undead, has no MR whatsoever. Robes of the Archmagi are powerful magical items that reduce opponents MR by 20% and confer 5% MR on its wearer.

Given how rare and powerful this special defense is, I understand the intent when it was described as only Great and True bloodlines could possess it. As a DM, I might even be inclined to keep the restriction, despite what the Book of Regency says. More likely, I'd bring it in line with other bloodline abilities. I'd make it available as a minor ability (5% MR), major (10% MR), and great (15% MR). but that's just my personal opinion.

[Malphas]

I never judge people for misinterpreting the rules. Nobody is perfect.

In this case, I don't think you misinterpreted anything. But the book of Regency presents revised rules that supersede this requirement.

Other forms of Major Resistance can be gained as a minor bloodline ability, a major bloodline ability, or a great bloodline ability. They give 25%, 50% and 75% protection as minor, major, and great abilities, respectively. Major Resistance (Magic), however, can only be accessed as a great bloodline ability. Also, unlike the other forms of Major Resistance, even as a great bloodline ability, it only grants 25% Magic Resistance.

The text also states that this is a rare ability and likely found in no more than one family or bloodline. It was clearly the intent to make MR available only on a very limited basis.

god i wish they bought a thesaurus back then.
could you perchance check approximately where in the book of regency is this stated?
it would honestly be quite helpful (i had to create a whole extended family of minor anduiras blooded nobles recently. fun fact: did you know that the only major resistance anduiras gives is magic? despite it being rolled at all levels. I gained a new hatred of the bloodline from this exercise)
extra credit: vorynn has a similar issue. i just rolled 3 randoms to have his blood (2 minor both randomly gaining 23 and one major at 24. i think i'll make the 2 into twins and the one into the youngest who was born after the father (or mother) completed grade increase) hence my increased interest in this stuff

also i completely agree with magic res being more powerful. I'm just unclear on how best to address it best.

[Magnus Argent]

god i wish they bought a thesaurus back then.
could you perchance check approximately where in the book of regency is this stated?
it would honestly be quite helpful (i had to create a whole extended family of minor anduiras blooded nobles recently. fun fact: did you know that the only major resistance anduiras gives is magic? despite it being rolled at all levels. I gained a new hatred of the bloodline from this exercise)
extra credit: vorynn has a similar issue. i just rolled 3 randoms to have his blood (2 minor both randomly gaining 23 and one major at 24. i think i'll make the 2 into twins and the one into the youngest who was born after the father (or mother) completed grade increase) hence my increased interest in this stuff

also i completely agree with magic res being more powerful. I'm just unclear on how best to address it best.

Oh, sorry.. I normally cite the source material when I refer to it directly.. I didn't in this case because Osprey basically quoted it verbatim. I'm looking at age 16 of the Book of Regency. It tells us that the Blood of Kings chapter presents "new and revised" information and goes on to describe the difference between Bloodline Strength ("a word") and Bloodline Score ("a number"). It goes on to say that the game mechanics are tied to the score while the strength is largely used for roleplaying purposes.

I wish I could answer how best to handle it.. all I can do is reiterate that, personally, I'd make it available in minor, major, and great forms with a 5% Magic Resistance as a minor ability, 10% as a major ability, and 15% as a great ability).

Of course, if you're playing 5th Edition D&D, converting it is simple: Magic Resistance % becomes Advantage on Saving Throws against spells. Easy peasy.

[Malphas]

Oh, sorry.. I normally cite the source material when I refer to it directly.. I didn't in this case because Osprey basically quoted it verbatim. I'm looking at age 16 of the Book of Regency. It tells us that the Blood of Kings chapter presents "new and revised" information and goes on to describe the difference between Bloodline Strength ("a word") and Bloodline Score ("a number"). It goes on to say that the game mechanics are tied to the score while the strength is largely used for roleplaying purposes.

I wish I could answer how best to handle it.. all I can do is reiterate that, personally, I'd make it available in minor, major, and great forms with a 5% Magic Resistance as a minor ability, 10% as a major ability, and 15% as a great ability).

Of course, if you're playing 5th Edition D&D, converting it is simple: Magic Resistance % becomes Advantage on Saving Throws against spells. Easy peasy.

honesty every bit helps, so thanks for the idea. 2nd edition was quite convoluted but birthright books especially so. constant uncertainties, confusing rule formats, problematic nomenclature and a mass of contradictions. I understand that some of that was due to changing/updated rules but this is a bit to much.

then again, the less said about 5th edition the better.

[Osprey]

god i wish they bought a thesaurus back then.
could you perchance check approximately where in the book of regency is this stated?
it would honestly be quite helpful (i had to create a whole extended family of minor anduiras blooded nobles recently. fun fact: did you know that the only major resistance anduiras gives is magic? despite it being rolled at all levels. I gained a new hatred of the bloodline from this exercise)
extra credit: vorynn has a similar issue. i just rolled 3 randoms to have his blood (2 minor both randomly gaining 23 and one major at 24. i think i'll make the 2 into twins and the one into the youngest who was born after the father (or mother) completed grade increase) hence my increased interest in this stuff

also i completely agree with magic res being more powerful. I'm just unclear on how best to address it best.

Use the Book of Regency pages 18-21 for rolling 2e bloodline abilities by derivation and strength, it will help immensely in reducing useless dice rolls.

For later editions of D&D, the BRCS Chapter 2 has some pretty good revised random tables by derivation...if I do say so myself. :P
(I was the one who revised them from the 3.0 BRCS for better results, with much rarer occurrences of abilities like Long Life. I did find one error on the Azrai table the other day, though. Oops!)