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Thread: Bards and Art

  1. #1
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Bards and Art

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauper View Post
    Sad nobody ever got a better ranger and bard done. They both"mean" the right additio to a party, but lack enough, to make them first choice ever.

    Until one plays wilderness with barbarian, ranger and druid restriction or a city adventure with talk, seduction and lots of art (NOT just music). I never did.
    There is an Artist class in Green Ronin's Medieval Players' Handbook that I think becomes a great little adventuring class with some bard levels. Just as the bard can create immediate effects with songs, the artist can create lasting effects with art. So imagine the castle of your PC ruler. As you enter the courtyard a great statue of a famous ancestor strikes you with a sense of awe and respect. Truly this is a great line of heroes.

    In the great hall where the courtiers await the presence of the ruler, there is a great tapestry that explains why this dynasty is the rightful occupant of the iron throne. Its explained clearly in the images and those who see it understand and can explain the claim of this dynasty.

    In the throne room itself, the throne is crafted with just majesty and beauty that its hard not to be overwhelmed with a sense of submission and obedience.

    Its only natural that a regent would use art to surround himself in his home places with effects that improve his safety, majesty, and reputation. They may be priced just like magic items of equivalent effect, but are works of art in their own right and are natural in the home and castle of the ruler.

    Using the artist rules, songs and poems could be created that had a specific effect so that bards, who are mechanically only excellent performers, could sing at court or recite a poem, tale, story, &c that inspires, awe, devotion, loyalty, obedience, or whatever emotion that the patron intends. After a person has come past statues, tapestries, paintings, stained glass images, and what have you, most people cannot speak their mind and address the ruler as they please. Instead, for the rest of the day they feel humbled by the greatness of the ruler and perhaps even feel they have shifted one step closer to being their friend. This effect lasts, depending on the art while in the presence of the art, or for some short period after viewing the art, so that this effect really only lasts while you are around the ruler.

    The ambassador for Avanil comes to your ruler's court to threaten and intimidate the ruler, but when confronted by the glory of the achievements of the ruler and their ancestors, he cannot bring himself to do anything of the kind and rather obsequiously explains that his master is unjustifiably angry. The ambassador knows as he leaves that he did not perform his duty, but was awed by the spectacle and majesty of the court. Even the Prince probably knows of the art and its effect (since art is famous) and resolves to send a diplomat with a higher will save next time.

  2. #2
    Ehrshegh of Spelling Thelandrin's Avatar
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    That's a cool idea. I just imagine the Prince or the Archduke holding court in a throneroom stuffed with mind-influencing artwork. It's probably akin to when you buy something from an art gallery, only to get it back and find that you're really not that fond of it after all!

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    Senior Member ploesch's Avatar
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    I like it. I imagine a Mage could do the same thing with the current rules, but having a class that just kind of innately makes them is a neat idea.
    When you play the game of thrones you win or you die.
    George R. R. Martin - A song of Ice and Fire

  4. #4

    Post Humble greetings

    Is it the first time you answer or respond to me, or just the first time I perceive it?

    I emailed Arjan about my problem to get in contact.

    So it's only because I can't afford to buy all D&D stuff, that is great. The 3.5 system still offered no ranger or bard who could hold his own compared to rogue, monk or even barbarian. GESTALT bard-monk was bearable, or bard-barbarian. For newbies, Gestalt meant they get the better from both classes and feats from both, too.

    I recently read the adventure "The standing stone", does anybody remember that one? I guess something like that "re-adapted" for Birthright could make some good "elven borders" kind of adventure.

    As I am rarely online: My basic concept of Birthright core classes in a group of four players would be:

    Noble, rogue, magician and cleric or paladin. Needless to say I am not talking hack&slash?

  5. #5
    I like this. You could write a play to influence how the court percieves a historical event, make a work of sculpture that makes visiting dignitaries believe a realm is cultured, pen a song that becomes a popular morale booster with the troops...basicly, letting bards use art to buff or debuff domain actions.

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    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    My 2ed Druid is not a bard but does have Singing as a NWP. So far I have used it to write a song that promotes the hero (or villain) status of one of the other PCs (who actually wanted to stay behind the scenes) and have also written another song about a PC that is a morale booster. The second one has not yet been revealed to the party but plans were to use it at a major feast.

    Therefore songs etc should be able to further or decrease the standing of an individual during one court session. The effect could only boost/hamper any actions within that turn or season. With more effort, the song can be spread throughout the land until it is known in every court, tavern and market in a province. If so, this could have a permanent effect on a PC or NPC's regency.

    Major sculptures, paintings or tapestries of the actions of a person could work similarly within a court but I am having trouble imagining how they could have widespread, permanent effect like songs. I suspect mass production of printed versions or minatures would be the only way. I can just see an NPC regent spreading pamphlets showing a picture of a PC regent in a crude/rude position relating to the politics of the day. A good political artist will know what sort of pictures would get the desired effect.

    Sorontar.

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    My approach is that Bards have temporary influence (since their powers are written that way) and artists have permanent influence, since their art can last much longer than a lifetime. So for Sorontar's druid, the song itself is crafted after a successful Inspiration check, and the crafting takes a long time as the song is improved and refined (perhaps with pen and paper, perhaps in front of various audiences).

    The bardic part is the performance.

    Major sculptures, paintings or tapestries of the actions of a person could work similarly within a court but I am having trouble imagining how they could have widespread, permanent effect like songs.
    Put them in public places. Put a sculpture like this one on a busy street (on a public building, like a court or administration building, or an urban castle) and quite a lot of people will see it.


    However, other than a few art works that inspire loyalty and obedience among the populace, I think a ruler would want most of his art where he holds court, so as to influence courtiers, plotters, diplomats, and other visitors to the court. A ruler's art could protect him because after having gazed in awe at his portrait, he could not bring himself to attack the ruler. Or give the ruler benefits to diplomacy, intimidation, or other key interaction skills, slide the attitude of people in court one step more favorable, and so on.

    Check out my revised Artist class Here and check out the kinds of things an art work might do to viewers in a court setting. If you wanted to influence the public you could, by putting works of art in public squares in your important towns.

    Nobles patronized all of this art to create an impression on people. The artist class just mechanizes that for a fantastic game setting.

  8. #8
    I like the idea, but it sounds like a better prestege class than a core class. Just, "I make art." doesn't feel like a career an adventurer should be following. Plus, it forces the Bard into the 'preform/sing' mold, which a bard doesn't nessicarily have to focus on exclusivly.

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatSeanGuy View Post
    I like the idea, but it sounds like a better prestege class than a core class. Just, "I make art." doesn't feel like a career an adventurer should be following.
    I don't like adventuring classes. I prefer classes that have some function at court. Adventuring is something that people with too much free time and a lust for blood do when they get bored, its not a profession.

    Plus, it forces the Bard into the 'preform/sing' mold, which a bard doesn't nessicarily have to focus on exclusivly.
    I was contrasting how bards and artists abilities work. Nothing says that a bard has to perform and sing. Had I been discussing the Scholar class then the bard would have been contrasted as a learned person of wide thin knowledge as opposed to a scholar who is deeper and narrower. Nothing says a bard has to be learned. He can have lots of physical or interaction skills instead.

    If I compare a fighter and a ranger as archers, nothing says that either of them must be archers.

  10. #10
    Senior Member ploesch's Avatar
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    I was thinking that the works being discussed were more of a magical nature than Mundane. Just as a Bards art, when being used to influence, is more magical in nature.

    If we are considering Mundane works, meant as non-magical not unimpressive, then the effects should be temporary. Perhaps a season, in the province where such a work is displayed. After a while people would becomeacquaintes with it's presense and it would lose it's effect. Although an appropriately great peice of art publicly displayed could have a permanent effect on revenues since visitors would come to see it.
    When you play the game of thrones you win or you die.
    George R. R. Martin - A song of Ice and Fire

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