Hold ! question ?

[Panics]

Hi There,

Its been a while I had a question ! But has I plunged back into my campaign, a question arose.

Does Guild, Temple, Law holdings have to pay for a Court ?
Does Province have to pay for a Court ? or only the Domain Regent ?

Can an holding raise troops (mercenaries or regulars) to protect there holdings ?

Thanks !

[Lord Rahvin]

As far as I know, yes, all domains need a court. Well, rather, they CAN
have a court. I don`t think anyone actually needs a court. Generally, it`s
agreed that realm rulers benefit the most from an expensive court since
diplomacy actions tend to be very important for avoiding wars and stuff.

I don`t know what you mean about provinces needing a court. Each Regent,
regardless of what holdings or provinces he owns, would have his own court,
even if its a dinky worthless 0gb court.

Holding domains generally aren`t supposed to raise troops without the
consent of their realm rulers. That being said, I don`t know if anything
actually stops them from doing so, but they are limited to hiring only
mercenaries. Realm rulers REALLY don`t want holding rulers mustering
mercenaries both for the obvious roleplaying reasons, and the annoying game
effects when the mercenaries disband.

[kgauck]

No one has to have a court, but without one, either realms or domains have a hard time getting things done. Paying court costs means paying to have a group of officials (who are also courtiers) around to manage duties and handle responsibility. Court costs effects how well you can manage decree actions, hit effects diplomacy, and how much time the regent has to spend on the minutia of state himself. Does the guilder have to check reciepts to know how well the holding in Dalton is doing, or can he ask an advisor? Is the ambassador from the Impregnable Heart impressed when he visits the High Prefect of the Western Imperial Temple, or does he find him gardening for his dinner outside of a cottage? Surroudning yourself with officials and magnificence costs money no matter who you are.

Raising troops depends on the nature of the domain. The warrior temples of Cuiraecen should be able to raise more and better troops more easily than the Happenstance Traders. That's more, better, and more easily. Anyone with a few coins can raise 20 thugs outside of a tavern.

[irdeggman]

Can an holding raise troops (mercenaries or regulars) to protect there holdings ?

Thanks !

Using the BRCS rules - yes but. . .


Ch 6:

A regent must have access to military resources to muster a unit and can muster an army unit in a province only if one of the following mustering conditions are met: (1) the regent controls a law holding in the province equal to or greater than the GB cost of mustering the unit; or, (2) the regent controls a temple or guild holdings in the province equal to or greater than 2 + the muster cost of the unit + levels of opposing law holdings in the province.

Fielding a standing army or naval fleet is a privilege that landed regents jealously guard. Although a non-landed regent may have the resources to field an army, the province regent may see doing so as a prelude to insurrection. A wise regent will gain the permission of the province ruler before attempting to muster military units.

Once complete, a highway has a yearly maintenance cost of half this amount (i.e. equal to the province's terrain movement cost). If the maintenance cost is not paid each spring, then the road falls into disrepair and ceases to provide movement or trade benefits.

Chap 5

Once created, the regent's of the guild holdings on either end holds the trade route equally. Either regent can destroy the trade route at will. Trade routes generate seasonal GB income for each guild equal to 1/2 of each guild's level. It is not unusual for other regents involved (the province ruler that maintains the roads, etc.) to receive a regular tribute (often 0.5 GB per trade route) from the guild regent's at either end of the trade route – but such matters are negotiable.

Essentially he who pays the maintenance on the roads "controls" the movement capability of any troops and thus has the largest influence on them. Also the landed regent (i.e., province ruler) has other means of influence that can be called to bear against the regent who maintains troops in his province without his "permission".

The 2nd ed rules were different in that certain holding types were allowed to raise certain types of troops (again based on holding level). It wasn't explicit on whether or not the province ruler's permission was required or not, but I viewed it as the types of troops lised in the table (Table 21 pg 61 of the BR Campaign Setting rules) were allowed without explicit permission but it was a good idea to get it since the province ruler knows where troops are located within his lands and he may "declare war" on the holding ruler who has raised troops without "permission".

[Panics]

ok good thanks !

Now... what i'm seeing is that court maintenance is too much moneys !

For my Provincial Ruler (1) to have a Court level (1) is like making no-money (earns 1 GB and spend 1 GB). He has no more revenue (he doesn't rule the Law holding, he's only a landed regent).

Would it be good to have the Court Maintenance divided by 2 ?

If I divide the cost by 2 and double the Court Level chart ? ie 1-2 replace to 1-4...5-8...up to 20.

Thanks !

[irdeggman]

Well your province ruler (1) won't be able to afford actions per se anyway since he won't have RP or GB to fund them.


He can still do any of the court actions himself (which takes up his normal actions) - or get a Lt (who can do one).

Besides you need a court level 3 court in order to gain (free) court actions - otherwise they are considered "standard" actions.

[Panics]

ok good ! So I eleminate the Courts ! Unless you can afford a level 3 court... so around Province 6+ !

Or I think I will only "redefine" what kind of court you can have... because I don't feel right to see a Ruler without servants or courtiers when he rule over 2500 peoples !

Also... a modification I use is I double the Provincial/holdings ratings... from 0-20 instead of 0-10. I've reduced GB from 2,000 to 1,000. Why ? That way I can have smaller province of 200 people. Of course, I've doubled the cost of Actions in GB.

Army cost is based has per another thread where a single soldier cost 18 gp/per season on garrison.

Maintenance is based on Stronghold builders Guidebook, aka 1% per year of buildings values. Except for trade roads which I used 1/6GB.

*Question*

What do you think of this alternate system ?
and Can we convert RP to GB ?

thanks

[kgauck]

2500 people is like being the mayor of a small town. He'll be surrounded by family, friends, and a very small staff, more like a large castle (or manor) than a small realm. For one thing, having only one province means you really don't need to delegate as much as someone who has four or five provinces does. Also, a small province (2500 people) is much easier to watch over than one with 25,000 people.

The staff you need to look lordly and perform your duties is probabaly half a dozen part time officers (marshal, seneshal, chamberlain, &c) who might well just be your friends and adventuring companions, and another half dozen full time clerks and scribes. Then you have a personal staff of cooks, maids, and grooms.

Your income is probabaly in the area of 40,000 to 50,000 gp and you generally will spend 15%-20% of that on maintaining your station (both for paying your followers and for stuff).

[Panics]

Take a look... does it feel right ?

remember 1 GB = 1,000 gp

also... province/holdings level have been put on a level 0-20 chart not level 0-10

thanks !

[irdeggman]

Sorry,

far too many things have changed for me to give you a "feels right" or "doesn't feel right" opinion.

You have changed pretty much all of the standards, so that effectively changes absoultely everything - realm spells, maintenance, muster etc.

If you really, really want to change to something totally different then I suggest you oick up a copy of Fields of Blood and use that domain maintence system and troop size information.


It has all been written already (without using RP at all).