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  1. #1
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    Magic and Sources

    Hi all-

    I've been thinking. The source for all arcane magic is mebhaighl, correct? Should wizards and magicians (and even bards) have more difficulty casting spells regions of a low source? I don't mean realm spells, i mean regular spells.

    Consider, a Source(7) province should have plenty of magical energy available, meaning the wizard should have plenty of power at his disposal. But the Imperial City of Anuire has a Source of 0. Where does a wizard in the city gain the magical energy to cast anything at all?

    Thoughts?


    -Fizz

  2. #2
    I believe that there is some special condition in the Imperial City. Forget the source ( I think either the Book of Mage Craft covers it, or it was sourced in one of the write-ups that used to be on the site), but apparently there are some ley nexus beneath the city that can be tapped by the Wizards of the city.

  3. #3
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    OK, but i wasn't meaning just for the Imperial City. As a general rule, should spellcasters have a more difficult time in casting their spells in low-source regions as compared to high-source regions?

    As it stands, a spellcaster is just as effective in the middle of a large developed area as he would be in the middle of an untamed forest. I'm thinking there should be some impact on the character.

    -Fizz

  4. #4
    Sorry, I saw the reference and figured that you were asking specifically about Anuire.

    I will check out the Book of Mage Craft and look at the 3.5 rules. I've been playing under the 2E and another series of rules to govern other aspects of my campaign, so I'll get back to you.

    It is an interesting point though.

    Jenn

  5. #5
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    Magic and Sources

    Fizz schrieb:

    >This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
    >You can view the entire thread at:
    >http://www.birthright.net/showthread...newpost&t=2873
    >
    >Fizz wrote:
    >OK, but i wasn`t meaning just for the Imperial City. As a general rule, should spellcasters have a more difficult time in casting their spells in low-source regions as compared to high-source regions?
    >
    >As it stands, a spellcaster is just as effective in the middle of a large developed area as he would be in the middle of an untamed forest. I`m thinking there should be some impact on the character.
    >
    Would you by the same logic say, that Druids are handicaped casting
    normal spells in large cities or clerics in areas where there is no
    temple of their deity? Then you ought also apply penaltys for
    city-rogues when stealing apples from a farmhouse or whenever else some
    character is not in his natural environment.
    bye
    Michael

  6. #6
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    Magic and Sources

    > Fizz wrote:
    > OK, but i wasn`t meaning just for the Imperial City. As a general rule,
    > should spellcasters have a more difficult time in casting their spells in
    > low-source regions as compared to high-source regions?
    >
    > As it stands, a spellcaster is just as effective in the middle of a large
    > developed area as he would be in the middle of an untamed forest. I`m
    > thinking there should be some impact on the character.

    This has been discussed in the past. Not just in provinces with low
    magical levels, but in provinces with claimed source levels, a true wizard
    might have a hard time casting spells. For instance, say a province has a
    source 5. The Sword Mage controls 3 of those levels, and 2 are
    uncontrolled.

    By one version, any mage in the province can cast up to a level 5 spell.

    By another, the SM can cast up to level 3 spells, and anyone else can cast
    up to level 2 spells due to the two uncontrolled levels.

    Both of these rules would make exceptions for the lesser magics like
    illusion and divination, which would be available anywhere.

    It is a very flavorful idea. Ties wizards very strongly to their domains.

    The downside is that it makes being a source-less adventuring wizard
    impossible beyond about 5th level, because your higher-level spells will
    be mostly inaccessible to you. It makes it very hard for a regent wizard
    to go on adventures unless he has a month`s lead time to forge a ley line
    into the province he plans on adventuring in. Alternatively, they might
    make a bunch of wands of spell to take adventuring with them, but that
    ties the wizards even more to magical items and many people already
    complain about D&D`s reliance on items.

    In short, it is a bad idea if you plan on your campaign involving
    adventuring.

    If your domain is entirely realm-based, or you really want source holders
    to be gods among wizards, then go for it, because it will definitely
    emphasize the primacy of source holders.

    --
    Daniel McSorley

  7. #7
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    For comparison, consider the Midnight campaign setting. Here the evil god has conquered all the lands and is slowly draining the world of magic. He and his evil-doers use sinks called Black Mirrors to do this. Spellcasters that get near one of these need to spend more energy to cast a spell. Midnight uses a spellpoint system for spells, so the mechanics of this are easy- the closer to the drain, the more spell points required.

    I think this same principle could be applied to Birthright. The lesser the source province you're in, the more difficult it is to cast. But Birthright uses a classic spellcasting system, so i don't know how this could be done. Though perhaps some people already house-rule a spell point system <shrug>.

    Hope that clarifies my question a little bit.


    -Fizz

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanMcSorley
    > Fizz wrote:
    This has been discussed in the past. Not just in provinces with low
    magical levels, but in provinces with claimed source levels, a true wizard
    might have a hard time casting spells. For instance, say a province has a
    source 5. The Sword Mage controls 3 of those levels, and 2 are
    uncontrolled.

    By one version, any mage in the province can cast up to a level 5 spell.

    By another, the SM can cast up to level 3 spells, and anyone else can cast
    up to level 2 spells due to the two uncontrolled levels.

    Both of these rules would make exceptions for the lesser magics like
    illusion and divination, which would be available anywhere.

    It is a very flavorful idea. Ties wizards very strongly to their domains.
    Though this also gets into the question of `what is a source'? Is a source a physical location that you can physically control. Or is it just a term to quantify the inherent amount of magic a given patch of land has?

    True magic doesn't require a source. Only realm magic does. True magic still draws upon mebhaighl however. If mebhaighl is all around, a property of the untamed land, then how does a wizard who controls a source control the magic? Mebhaighl is everywhere, just not uniformly distributed.

    For comparison, conquering the tallest mountain doesn't mean you can prevent people from breathing.

    -Fizz

  9. #9
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    Magic and Sources

    At 10:17 AM 12/22/2005, Fizz wrote:

    >I`ve been thinking. The source for all arcane magic is mebhaighl,
    >correct? Should wizards and magicians (and even bards) have more
    >difficulty casting spells regions of a low source? I don`t mean
    >realm spells, i mean regular spells.
    >
    >Consider, a Source(7) province should have plenty of magical energy
    >available, meaning the wizard should have plenty of power at his
    >disposal. But the Imperial City of Anuire has a Source of 0. Where
    >does a wizard in the city gain the magical energy to cast anything at all?

    I`m not personally inclined to think a lack of mebhaighl should
    necessarily hamper "conventional" spellcasting. Mebhaighl is the
    (a?) source of true or high magic, but not necessarily the source of
    all arcane magic. Illusion, divination and bard magic are unaffected
    by the presence (or lack) of mebhaighl in most of the campaign
    materials. It might be reasonable to assume that the effect had some
    sort of impact, but since there`s nothing to indicate that mebhaighl
    was necessary before Deismaar it seems to me that those kinds of
    spells should remain unaltered by it.

    I have, however, long been a proponent of _benefits_ to conventional
    spellcasting for wizards who control sources while they in their
    "home" provinces or ones that they have ley lines to. Increases in
    effective spellcaster level, for instance, by source level and
    various effects having to do with their ability to interact with the
    natural environment like bonuses to checks dealing with "wild"
    animals in their demesne. Things like that.

    Gary

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by geeman
    It might be reasonable to assume that the effect had some
    sort of impact, but since there`s nothing to indicate that mebhaighl
    was necessary before Deismaar it seems to me that those kinds of
    spells should remain unaltered by it.
    What does Deismaar have to do with mebhaighl? Mebhaighl has always been in the land, even before Deismaar.

    -Fizz

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