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  1. #1
    Rhoubhe Manslayer

    Medium Awnsheglien (Augmented Humanoid [Elf])
    Level 33 Fighter/Ranger/Wizard/Scion of Azrai
    Hit Dice: 8d10 plus 8d8 plus 15d4 plus 2d6 plus 66+3 (215 hp)
    Initiative: +5 (+5 dex)
    Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
    AC: 31 (+5 dex, +4 Mithril Breastplate [+9], +3 Large Steel Shield [+5], +2 Natural), touch 15, flat-footed 26
    Base Attack/Grapple: +22/+31
    Attack: +4 Bastard Sword of Life Stealing +36 melee (1d10+13 17-20/x2 plus negative level) or +3 composite longbow (+3 Str) +30 ranged brilliant energy arrow (1d8+3 plus 1d8 electricity damage)
    Full Attack: +4 Bastard Sword of Life Stealing +36/+31/+26 melee (1d10+13 17-20/x2 plus negative level) or +3 composite longbow (+3 Str) +30/+25/+20 ranged energy arrow (1d8+3 plus 1d8 electricity damage) or touch spell +31 or ranged touch spell +27
    Face/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: spells, blood abilities, energy arrows
    Special Qualities: damage Reduction 10/magic and cold iron, elf traits, fast healing 3, immune to launched missles, light sensitive, spell resistance 21, swift tracker, true seeing, wild empathy, woodland stride
    Saves: Fort +26, Ref +23, Will +24.
    Abilities: Str 28, Dex 20, Con 15, Int 23, Wis 14, Cha 17.
    Skills: Bluff +10, Climb +19, Concentration +22, Craft (alchemy) +20, Decipher Script +7, Diplomacy +6, Gather Information +9, Handle Animal +13, Heal +8, Hide +16, Intimidate +11, Jump +18, Knowledge (arcana) +23, Knowledge (dungoneering) +9, Knowledge (geography) +12, Knowledge (local) +15, Knowledge (nature) +13, Knowledge (planes) +21, Lead +14, Listen +8, Move Silently +16, Ride +15, Search +12, Sense Motive +7, Spellcraft +18, Spot +8, Survival +13, Swim +17, Use Rope +8, Warcraft +18
    Feats: Battle Spell, Blind Fight, Brew Potion, Combat Archery, Combat Reflexes, Craft Magic Arms & Armor, Craft Wand, Dark Speech, Dodge, *Endurance, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword), Hold the Line, Improved Critical (bastard sword), *Many Shot, Mobility, Mounted Archery, Mounted Combat, Point Black Shot, Quick Draw, *Rapid Shot, *Scribe Scroll, Shot on the Run, Spring Attack, *Track, Weapon Focus (bastard sword)
    Bloodline: True (Azrai) 95
    Blood Abilities: Alertness (minor), Bloodform (major), Charm Aura (major), Detect Life (great), Enhanced Senses (great), Fear (minor), Iron Will (minor), Major Resistance - Charm (great), Major Resistance - Poison (major), Poison Sense (minor), Regeneration (great), Resistance (minor), Wither Touch (major)

    Organization: Solitary
    Challenge Rating: 33 to 35
    Treasure: See Below.
    Alignment: Neutral Evil

    Favored Enemy (ex): Human (+4), Goblinoid (+2)

    True Seeing (su): Rhuobhe has continuous true seeing ability, as the spell (caster level 20th).

    Energy Arrows (su): Rhuobhe has no need of a quiver. At will he can create energy arrows out of thin air. These arrows are considered magical for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction and can be instilled with the brilliant energy quality if Rhoubhe wills it.

    Animal Companion(ex): Usually found lounging about Rhuobhe's laboratory is an aging medium viper the Elf lovingly calls, Ickird.

    Possessions: +4 bastard sword of life stealing, +4 mithril breastplate, +3 large steel shield, orb of storms, rod of maximize

    Commonly Prepared Wizard Spells (4/6/6/5/5/5/4/3/2), Caster Level 15, Base DC 16 + Spell Level.
    0th level - detect magic, mage hand, message, read magic
    1st level - charm person, chill touch, jump, magic missle (x2), reduce person
    2nd level - blindness/deafness, blur, fog cloud, levitate, web, whispering wind
    3rd level - blink, displacement, fly, haste, lightning bolt
    4th level - animate dead, confusion, Evard's black tentacles, ice storm, polymorph
    5th level - dismissal, baleful polymorph, hold monster, lesser planar binding, telekinesis
    6th level - disintegrate, greater dispel magic, Otiluke's freezing sphere, planar binding
    7th level - banishment, prismatic spray
    8th level - polar ray

    Ranger Spells Per Day (0/2/1), Caster Level 4, Base DC 13 + Spell Level.
    1st level - entangle, longstrider
    2nd level - spike growth or wind wall
    Thread Slaying Specialist.

  2. #2
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    Originally posted by fiftyone@Apr 28 2004, 10:29 AM
    Rhoubhe Manslayer

    Medium Awnsheglien (Augmented Humanoid [Elf])
    Level 33 Fighter/Ranger/Wizard/Scion of Azrai
    I would suggest changing the format slightly to include what levels the monster/character has in the various classes instead of the total character level. It is easy enough to look through the HD and count the various levels if they all have a different HD, but as soon as there are two classes with the same base HD things could get confusing.

    In this case it would be Fighter 8/Ranger 8/Wizard 15/Scion of Azrai 2 instead of Level 33 Fighter/Ranger/Wizard/Scion of Azrai.

    Cheers
    E

  3. #3
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    Another option is to replace some of the fighter and ranger levels with the Arcane Archer prestige class...allowing him to enchant arrows at will - whereas the energy arrows idea is, well, the sort of thing that normally only actual deities are capable of...

    Also has Rhuobhe has a True Bloodline, perhaps 3 scion levels would be more accurate? Don't know about that one, just seems appropriate...

    Also, if Rhuobhe is really an awnshegh, as opposed to just a scion of Azrai, where are his monster levels to represent that? Not sure how that could or should be done, but it seems like we should either not call Rhuobhe an awnshegh at all, or he needs some sort of representation for how he has changed beyond just having cool blood abilities. One possibility is that the scion levels could be considered "monster levels" by themselves, if becoming an awnshegh could convert those levels appropriately before other levels are added on...

    Perhaps Scion3/Wizard15/Fighter4/Ranger6/Arcane Archer5?

    Osprey

  4. #4
    Originally posted by Osprey@Apr 28 2004, 02:05 PM
    Another option is to replace some of the fighter and ranger levels with the Arcane Archer prestige class...allowing him to enchant arrows at will - whereas the energy arrows idea is, well, the sort of thing that normally only actual deities are capable of...

    Also has Rhuobhe has a True Bloodline, perhaps 3 scion levels would be more accurate? Don't know about that one, just seems appropriate...

    Also, if Rhuobhe is really an awnshegh, as opposed to just a scion of Azrai, where are his monster levels to represent that? Not sure how that could or should be done, but it seems like we should either not call Rhuobhe an awnshegh at all, or he needs some sort of representation for how he has changed beyond just having cool blood abilities. One possibility is that the scion levels could be considered "monster levels" by themselves, if becoming an awnshegh could convert those levels appropriately before other levels are added on...

    Perhaps Scion3/Wizard15/Fighter4/Ranger6/Arcane Archer5?

    Osprey
    - Energy arrows, see second edition ^_^ .. A +3 Brilliant Energy Composite Longow (+3 Str) of Shock would have relatively the same effect. That's not even epic (+8 total). A solar can create arrow of slaying at will and is only a 22 HD creature.

    - 3 levels of Scion; chap 2 revision details only 2.

    - Rhuobhe isn't a monstrous awnshegh.
    Thread Slaying Specialist.

  5. #5
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    As I've pointed out several times (and I think you are starting to see why as you delve deeper into creating awnshegh) - the first thing that needs to be done is to determine a means of capturing the transformation process. The deeper you get the harder it becomes to rationalize how the build should work and then the balance between awnshegh becomes harder to maintain. It could be a prestige class, it could be a variation of the UA bloodlines, it could be something else entirely.

    What ever was written in 2nd ed for awnshegh will end up being changed as the move to 3.5 occurs - this is primarily because in 2nd there was no mechanic for creating monsters or NPCs for that matter. It was whatever the author felt worked at the time. 3.5 on the other hand has specific mechanics for development and building them and they are balanced with each other in their construction - this relates to how the CR/EL are determined so everything is tied together.

    Just because an awnshegh had some ability in 2nd ed doesn't mean that it will transfer into the 3.5 mechanics. The idea is to capture the feel and flavor and maintain some semblance of their relative threat level in the process.

    A straight even up conversion of the 2nd ed awnshegh will not work, they need to be constructed using some sort of mechanic. Savage Species provides some guidance for how to make such a build also, but regardless some basic mechanic process needs to be written down first.

    Rhuobhe is an awnsheghlien thefore he has transformed into something different that what he was. He may not be a monstrous humanoid but he is not a plain Cerilian elf anymore either. Some sort of progression towards a true fey creature is most likely the closest fit for him.

    I did not include 3 levels of scion class because there are no PCs with true bloodlines and all known true bloodlines belong to awnshegh or ershegh so the aspect of true bloodline could be captured by the actual transformation process. I also didn't want to presume to capture the awnshegh/ershegh transformation process in that manner, I wanted to leave it to the one (evidently it is you now fiftyone) who was going to work on them. If desired another level of scion class could be added, but it is not available for PCs.
    Duane Eggert

  6. #6
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 01:51 AM 4/29/2004 +0200, irdeggman wrote:



    > As I`ve pointed out several times (and I think you are starting to see

    > why as you delve deeper into creating awnshegh) - the first thing that

    > needs to be done is to determine a means of capturing the transformation

    > process. The deeper you get the harder it becomes to rationalize how the

    > build should work and then the balance between awnshegh becomes harder to

    > maintain. It could be a prestige class, it could be a variation of the UA

    > bloodlines, it could be something else entirely.



    I`ve found it works pretty well using the character class method. At

    least, nobody has said they thought any of the abilities were inappropriate

    or imbalanced for any of them I`ve sent to the BR community. (There have

    been some valid points made about the CR I`ve assigned, but that`s not

    really related to the class itself.)



    The class is pretty simple. It has d10 HD, fast BAB, fortitude and reflex

    saves, and 2 skill points/level with the player/DM choosing 10 skills from

    those available to be class skills for the character. The major feature of

    the class is that it gets a BP every level (the bloodline point system I

    use) to spend on an existing blood ability, a new one or a transformation

    effect. Its the transformation and disadvantage "special ability" sections

    of that class that are the longest, but they aren`t particular more

    extensive than exist for most character class write ups. Even though I`ve

    been adding and articulating them for months those sections are still under

    a 1,500 words.



    In fact, here`s the whole character class description. Hopefully the

    formatting won`t be too difficult to read.



    The Awnshegh class is used to reflect an awnshegh`s transformation into

    the corrupted form that parallels the character`s nature and

    personality. A scion of Azrai may always choose to take a level as an

    awnshegh when he levels up, but he may be required to take a level in this

    class if he fails a will save. See The Blood of Azrai on page 7. [Note:

    This is another section in my BP document that nobody but my group has

    seen, I`m afraid. -G]

    Alignment: Any.

    Hit Die: d10.

    Class Skills: Pick ten skills appropriate to the form your character is

    transforming into. All other skills are cross class skills for you as you

    level up in the awnshegh prestige class.



    Skill Points per Level: 2 + Int modifier



    Table 7: Awnshegh/Ershegh

    Fort Ref Will

    Level BAB Save Save Save Special

    1 +1 +2 +2 +0 Bonus BP, transformation

    1

    2 +2 +3 +3 +0 Bonus BP, disadvantage

    1

    3 +3 +3 +3 +1 Bonus BP, transformation

    2

    4 +4 +4 +4 +1 Bonus BP, disadvantage

    2

    5 +5 +4 +4 +1 Bonus BP, transformation

    3

    6 +6 +5 +5 +2 Bonus BP, disadvantage

    3

    7 +7 +5 +5 +2 Bonus BP, transformation

    4

    8 +8 +6 +6 +2 Bonus BP, disadvantage

    4

    9 +9 +6 +6 +3 Bonus BP, transformation

    5

    10 +10 +7 +7 +3 Bonus BP, disadvantage

    5

    11 +11 +7 +7 +3 Bonus BP, transformation

    6

    12 +12 +8 +8 +4 Bonus BP, disadvantage

    6

    13 +13 +8 +8 +4 Bonus BP, transformation

    7

    14 +14 +9 +9 +4 Bonus BP, disadvantage

    7

    15 +15 +9 +9 +5 Bonus BP, transformation

    8

    16 +16 +10 +10 +5 Bonus BP, disadvantage

    8

    17 +17 +10 +10 +5 Bonus BP, transformation

    9

    18 +18 +11 +11 +6 Bonus BP, disadvantage

    9

    19 +19 +11 +11 +6 Bonus BP, transformation

    10

    20 +20 +12 +12 +6 Bonus BP, disadvantage

    10





    CLASS FEATURES

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: None. An awnshegh/ershegh whose

    transformation gives him an unarmed attack, however, automatically gets the

    Unarmed Combat feat.

    Gear: None.

    Bonus BP: You gain an additional Bloodline Point. This BP may be spent

    to improve a blood ability you already have or it may be spent on any other

    blood ability available to your bloodline derivation.

    The BP you earn from taking levels in the Blood Form prestige class may

    be spent to gain more blood abilities or increase your blood abilities

    higher than your Scion level would permit. You need not abide by the

    normal limitation regarding the maximum number of blood abilities when

    spending these BP of Table 3: Bloodline Score on page 6. That is, a scion

    with a Az(10/36) bloodline has 5 BP that he may spend on no more than 2

    blood abilities. The same character that gained BP by taking levels in the

    Awnshegh/Ershegh prestige class can spend those BP on a third blood ability

    or they can be used to increase the power of one of his existing blood

    abilities.

    You may exchange a bonus BP for an additional Transformation (below.)

    Transformation: As an awnshegh you begin to transform into a distinctly

    non-human form. This form coincides with your personality and

    demeanor. You may transform into an animal, monster or some otherworldly

    form. Your transformation into an awnsheghlien is a constant, degenerate

    process, but you only gain abilities based upon your blood form every other

    level you progress as an awnshegh. Blood Form abilities may be claws

    granting an unarmed attack, scales that provide a natural armor bonus or

    any other special ability generally reserved for animals or

    monsters. Below is a list of typical transformations that you may choose

    from or use as a guide for creating your own transformation effects:



    Ability Drain 1: When you make a successful touch attack or melee attack

    your opponent must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + your character level) or

    suffer ability score damage. You can choose any ability score except

    constitution.

    Ability Drain 2: A second transformation can be used to make the ability

    score drained constitution. (You may skip this transformation and move on

    to Ability Drain 3+ if you want to continue draining any of the other five

    ability scores.)

    Ability Drain 3+: Later transformations increase the amount of points

    your opponent loses by 1 point. You can continue taking this

    transformation, but you cannot take it in two consecutive levels.

    Ability Score Bonus 1: A +2 bonus to any ability score.

    Ability Score Bonus 2+: Later transformations can improve your ability

    scores by +2.

    Claws 1: You get two unarmed attacks that do 1d4 damage. Typically,

    these attacks are assumed to be claws or talons on the character`s hands,

    but it can be used to represent any attack with two limbs. The type of

    damage done (piercing, slashing or bludgeoning) should be determined when

    the transformation is taken.

    Claws 2+: Later transformations can be used to improve the die for this

    attack using the following progression: 1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 1d12, 2d8, 2d10, 2d12.

    Damage Reduction 1: You have DR 1/.

    Damage Reduction 2+: Later transformations can be used to improve your

    damage reduction to 2/, 3/, etc.

    Fangs 1: You get an unarmed attack that does 1d6 damage. This attack is

    generally assumed to be a bite, but can be used to represent any single

    attack. Like the Claws 1 transformation, the type of damage done

    (piercing, slashing or bludgeoning) is determined when the transformation

    is taken.

    Fangs 2+: Later transformations can be used to improve the die for this

    attack using the following progression: 1d10, 2d8, 2d10, 2d12, 3d10, 3d12,

    4d10.

    Immunity:

    Move 1: Increase your movement rate by 10 feet, or add a new type of

    movement at 10 feet. That is, a typical human could increase his movement

    rate to 40 feet, or could gain a burrowing movement rate of 10 feet. Other

    types of movement that could be added are a swim movement rate, or a climb

    movement.

    Move 2+: Later transformations can improve your movement rate by 10 feet.

    Natural Armor 1: Scales, thick skin, a tough hide, etc. that provide a

    +2 natural armor bonus.

    Natural Armor 2+: Later transformations can be used to improve your

    natural armor bonus by an additional +2.

    Nightvision: per ??

    Saving Throw Bonus 1: A +2 bonus to any saving throw.

    Saving Throw Bonus 2+: Later transformations can improve saving throws

    by an additional +2.

    Scent: You gain the scent special ability.

    Size Increase: By dedicating both your bonus BP and transformation bonus

    you can increase your size category. Increasing size grants ability score

    increases and decreases, natural armor, penalties to attacks, etc. per the

    guidelines in the MM.

    Spell-like Ability 1: A transformation can take the form of a spell-like

    ability. Choose an appropriate 0th level spell.

    Spell-like Ability 2+: Later transformations can improve the spell-like

    ability to 1st+ level spells.

    Subtype: You may add a subtype to your character description (fey,

    outsider, etc.)

    Tremorsense 1: You gain tremorsense (DMG 299) with a range of 30 feet.

    Tremorsense 2+: Later transformations improve your tremorsense range

    improve by 30 feet.

    Water Breathing: You are able to breathe underwater per the ???

    Wings 1: You can fly at 40 feet with poor maneuverability.

    Wings 2+: Later transformations can improve your maneuverability

    category or increase your flying speed by 20 feet.



    Disadvantage: Taking levels in the awnshegh character class has negative

    consequences as well. Starting at 2nd level and every other level

    thereafter the changes to your body caused by your awnsheghlien form cause

    you to suffer a disadvantage. Disadvantages are similar to transformations

    in that they should in some way relate to the form you are changing

    into. For instance, a character who gained a natural armor bonus from

    scaly skin from transforming into a lizard-like creature might also become

    cold-blooded and, therefore, more vulnerable to heat and cold based

    attacks. Some typical disadvantages are:



    Ability Penalty 1: You suffer a -4 penalty to charisma, or a -2 penalty

    to any other ability score.

    Ability Penalty 2+: You can continue to suffer ability score penalties

    as long as the penalty will not reduce an ability score to 0.

    Bad Reactions: You are slow to react, suffering a 4 penalty to

    initiative checks.

    Bad Saves 1: You suffer a 2 penalty to any saving throw.

    Bad Saves 2: You suffer additional saving throw penalties. You may not

    take a saving throw penalty on the same saving throw more than twice for a

    cumulative penalty of 4.

    Body Shape 1: Your body changes enough from the typical humanoid form so

    that you are unable to wear standard armor and must have clothing and

    similar equipment custom made at 200% of their standard cost.

    Body Shape 2: Your body has changed to the point that you are not able

    to wear armor or clothing at all.

    Body Shape 3: Your body has changed to the point that you are not able

    to wear rings or other jewelry, nor can you use any standard

    equipment. You have difficulty using objects designed for humans like

    doorknobs, chairs, etc.

    Diminished Hands 1: Your hands are reduced and/or your thumb diminished

    so that you are only able to grip in one hand weapons one size category

    smaller than you.

    Diminished Hands 2+: You may continue to take this disadvantage to

    reflect that your hands and fingers have continued to be reduced so that

    you can only wield weapons two size categories smaller than you, then three

    sizes, etc. Eventually (below size Fine) you are unable to hold objects at

    all.

    Diminished Sight 1: You are nearsighted. You suffer a 2 penalty to all

    ranged attacks and spot checks.

    Diminished Sight 2: Your vision has deteriorated further. You suffer a

    4 penalty on all ranged attacks and spot checks.

    Diminished Sight 3: You are blind. See the PHB p151-2.

    Diminished Voice 1: You can only speak in a whisper (requiring a DC 15

    Listen check to hear) or you must make a DC20 Will save in order to utter

    an articulate word or short sentence.

    Diminished Voice 2: You can no longer speak audibly.

    Energy Weakness: You become vulnerable to a particular form of energy

    (heat, cold or electricity) suffering double damage from such attacks.

    Hearing Loss 1: You are hard of hearing. You suffer a 4 penalty to

    Listen checks.

    Hearing Loss 2: You are deaf.

    Light Sensitivity 1: Your are sensitive to light suffering a -2 penalty

    to all attacks, skill checks and saving throws made while in daylight.

    Light Sensitivity 2: You suffer ability score penalties (-2 to strength

    and dexterity) in daylight.

    Light Sensitivity 3: You suffer physical damage (2 hit points per round)

    when directly exposed to daylight.

    Light Sensitivity 4: You are blind in daylight. See the DMG p151-2.

    Light Sensitivity 5+: You can double the effects of Light Sensitivity 1,

    2 or 3. You may take this disadvantage more than once, but not to double

    the effect of the same Light Sensitivity.

    Slow 1: Your movement rate is decreased by 10 feet. You may not apply

    this disadvantage to a type of movement you gained as part of an awnshegh

    transformation or blood ability.

    Slow 2+: You may take this disadvantage as long as you have 10 feet of

    movement to lose until you are immobile with that type of movement.

    Swallow Whole:

    Turn Vulnerability: You can be turned as an undead creature by an

    appropriately aligned priest.

    Water Breather: You are no longer able to breathe air, suffocating when

    taken out of the water per the rules on Suffocation in the DMG.



    New Transformations and Disadvantages: When developing new transformations

    or disadvantages not covered by those listed above try to use the existing

    ones as a guideline.



    Using that class to portray the transformations and disadvantages of an

    awnshegh/ershegh character seems to create balanced and logically devised

    characters. The only downside that I can see is that it requires giving

    existing 2e characters another six or more character levels.



    If one uses a character class for awnshegh (or ershegh) transformation the

    only real question then becomes How many levels in that class does the

    character have? When it comes to characters like Rhoubhe, the Spider, etc.

    I`ve found the best way to answer that question is to just go ahead and

    start writing up the character giving him the minimum number of levels

    required to portray that character`s special abilities.



    Gary

  7. #7
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    Interesting... It seem it should work, though only playtesting will reveal if it really does.

  8. #8
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    Originally posted by geeman@Apr 29 2004, 02:30 AM
    The class is pretty simple. It has d10 HD, fast BAB, fortitude and reflex saves, and 2 skill points/level with the player/DM choosing 10 skills from those available to be class skills for the character. The major feature of the class is that it gets a BP every level (the bloodline point system I use) to spend on an existing blood ability, a new one or a transformation effect. Its the transformation and disadvantage "special ability" sections of that class that are the longest, but they aren`t particular more extensive than exist for most character class write ups. Even though I`ve been adding and articulating them for months those sections are still under a 1,500 words.

    <snip>

    Using that class to portray the transformations and disadvantages of an awnshegh/ershegh character seems to create balanced and logically devised characters. The only downside that I can see is that it requires giving existing 2e characters another six or more character levels.
    Very good. I think this is the best suggestion I have seen for creating Awnsheghs. My only suggestion would be to try condense the class somewhat to prevent an unnecessary high number of levels required to generate some of the more serious transformations. One option I think could work is to have each level give the character both a transformation and a disadvantage.

    This would cut down the required levels to half, and also remove the current difference in power between odd and even numbered levels. The six levels you see as required for many of the existing characters would be reduced to three, and as a lot of people on this list appears keen on keeping their campaigns at relatively low levels as in 2e, this could make the class a more interesting option for them.

    Cheers,
    E

  9. #9
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    Very good. I think this is the best suggestion I have seen for creating Awnsheghs. My only suggestion would be to try condense the class somewhat to prevent an unnecessary high number of levels required to generate some of the more serious transformations. One option I think could work is to have each level give the character both a transformation and a disadvantage.

    This would cut down the required levels to half, and also remove the current difference in power between odd and even numbered levels. The six levels you see as required for many of the existing characters would be reduced to three, and as a lot of people on this list appears keen on keeping their campaigns at relatively low levels as in 2e, this could make the class a more interesting option for them.

    Cheers,
    E
    Agreed. Also, it would allow more class levels for awnshegh, which would encourage the human aspect of awnshegh to still be a prominent part for most.

    Gary, is there any way the class could be converted from Blood Points (yeah, I know you&#39;re a huge proponent of BP, but humor me) to the revised BRCS system? I would like to see if this couldn&#39;t be adopted there.

    Osprey

  10. #10
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 02:18 PM 4/29/2004 +0200, Don E wrote:



    >My only suggestion would be to try condense the class somewhat to prevent

    >an unnecessary high number of levels required to generate some of the more

    >serious transformations. One option I think could work is to have each

    >level give the character both a transformation and a disadvantage.

    >

    >This would cut down the required levels to half, and also remove the

    >current difference in power between odd and even numbered levels. The six

    >levels you see as required for many of the existing characters would be

    >reduced to three, and as a lot of people on this list appears keen on

    >keeping their campaigns at relatively low levels as in 2e, this could make

    >the class a more interesting option for them.



    Balancing the special abilities of a proposed awnshegh/ershegh class

    against that of "standard" or "average" character class special abilities

    is something of a shaky proposition. In this case, the BP every level

    along with the alternating transformation/disadvantage effects are pretty

    comparable to those of most character classes IMO. They might even be

    somewhat more powerful than is standard. Though I`ve gone to some effort

    to try to prevent that in the rest of the system, it`s kind of inevitable

    at higher levels as special abilities tend to scale up in power and become

    more difficult to adjudicate. I`m reluctant to bump up the power scale of

    the special abilities all that much, though I could try a transformation

    every level as you suggest just to see how it effects the overall abilities

    of the characters.



    Personally, I`m not terribly concerned about the additional levels to

    awnshegh since most of them in a 3e sense seem somewhat underpowered. The

    Spider, for instance, is woefully wimpy if translated "straight" level for

    level as he was originally presented. Aside from that, as often as not the

    "core" awnshegh should be pretty unassailably powerful IMO. Minor awnshegh

    can be created with fewer than six levels in the awnshegh class.



    A couple of things I probably should have better outlined in the previous

    post, however:



    1. "6th level" is just a guesstimate on my part. Not having taken a stab

    at any of the existing awnsheghlien I just threw that out there. In

    general, I`ve found awnshegh need around that many levels to get a decent

    amount of effects, though in the case of Rhoubhe I suspect it might not be

    all that many since his transformation is relatively slight (compared to

    most other awnshegh) and might be portrayed in other ways (levels in a sort

    of Arcane Archer class, for example.) In general, the awnshegh or ershegh

    that I write up wind up having between 8-12 levels in the class, but that`s

    as much to get them to some particular CR or general power scale as it is

    to affect a particular transformation. In some cases as few as four levels

    seems to work, particularly since:



    2. The 1BP/level earned in the class can be spent to get another

    transformation effect rather than on a blood ability. (It`s easy to miss

    that note in the description of the Bonus BP special ability.) An awnshegh

    could, therefore, get a transformation every level, in addition to the one

    he earns every odd level if he dedicated his 1BP/level to a transformation

    rather than to improving his existing blood abilities or gaining new

    ones. So at 6th level an awnshegh could have nine transformation effects

    not three. In effect, an awnshegh or ershegh can "transform" 1.5 times per

    level.



    In that context, I suppose a transformation every level (rather than every

    other) would probably not be that gross a misrepresentation of the

    character. I`ll have to write up one or two, however, just to see how well

    it works at that scale rather than the one I`ve been using.



    3. Part of that whole BP document includes a write up of the bloodform

    ability which gives a scion a transformation effect without the

    disadvantage as described in that character class write up, so in a few

    cases an awnshegh could be more transformed than just his levels in the

    character class indicate. In fact, after the first BP (which takes the

    form of a bloodmark in the BP system) all BP spent on bloodform or

    bloodtrait are transformations. A character with Bloodform (major) would

    have 3-5 transformations, while one with that ability at great power would

    have 6-8. (The BP system includes what would be considered a Bloodform

    (minor) ability. In fact, it has minor through great versions of all the

    blood abilities... not that it really matters in this case.)



    4. Many awnshegh in the original materials have a total number and power

    level of blood abilities that would be impossible to acquire given their

    bloodline score in the system presented in the Rulebook. Hence, the

    ability of the awnshegh character class to improve or give a character new

    blood abilities. It`s debatable if the blood abilities in the original

    character descriptions represent the actual blood ability of the character,

    however, so the bloodform(minor) or bloodform(great) abilities that might

    represent what would be as many as 8 transformations in #3 above might

    actually be part of the character`s bloodline or it might represent power

    gained from levels in such a system.



    5. Since there was no awnshegh character class in the original BR system

    one of the things that would appear to have been done in several cases was

    to assume that the character was levelling up as a fighter. That`s not

    always the case, of course, but in the cases in which it is true the

    awnshegh class is very much like a fighter in several respects (HD, BAB,

    fortitude save, skill points) so if a particular awnshegh (like Rhoubhe or

    the Spider) has fighter levels some of them might be exchanged for awnshegh

    levels if one is concerned about not allowing the character to get too high

    level, but still keeping him as much like the original character as

    possible. In fact, this might work a little better since the characters

    didn`t originally have bonus fighter feats which might be somewhat weird

    when used to portray the character in a new, 3e version.



    Gary

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