At 07:28 PM 2/19/2003 +0100, you wrote:
> Lord Shade wrote:
>
>>>Better Vassals? ;-)
>>>Taeghas and Brosengae were on Boeruines side during Michale Roeles
>>>ascension to the throne - they can change again sides. And as both are
>>>constantly on the brink of civil war Avan can be kept busy by this alone
>>>(if he has only Magician lieutenants and not good diplomats to send...)
>>>
>>I think Avanil has better vassals. Let`s look at it this way:
>>
>>Avanil Boeruine
>>------ --------
>>Taeghas = Talinie
>>PAI = Arien Borthein
>>WIT > NIT
>>Harald Khor = Arlen Innis
>>Mieres/AV
>>Brosengae/EM
>>As written Talinie and Taeghas are both pretty reliable and comparable in
>>size. Arlen Innis is higher level, but Harald Khorien has more
>>sources/bloodline and therefore more RP, so I count them as pretty much
>>equal. AB and PAI both kind of suck, as their bloodlines are small. WIT is
>>an awesomely powerful domain on its own (huge holdings and income,
>>4th-largest non-awnshegh bloodline in all of Anuire) and seems to be
>>extremely reliable, and clearly superior to NIT. On top of this advantage,
>>Avan has 2 unreliable vassals, Brosengae and Mieres, that at least for the
>>time being provide him with tribute and therefore a
>> bigger advantage over
>>Boeruine.
>>
>When adding Talinie, you forget Torele Anviras who is loyal to Talinie
>and could be counted to help when it would be needed.
>Also the Hidden Temple of Cuiraceen in strong in Boeruine and I would
>add them as allies to Boeruine if it comes to an Avan-Boeruine war.
>Wasn´t somewhere mentinoed that Aeric Boeruine counts himself as member
>of that temple while being the liege lord of the NIT?

He`s loyal to Talinie. Would he help Boeruine push for the Imperial City?
For that matter, Mhistecai would help defend Mieres too if it was invaded.

>>As for the Magician lieutenant issue, you are responding to a different
>>thread and I`ll rebut your point there.
>>
>>>Mieres could be cut off at any time the seadrake wishes and the governor
>>>does not seem overly trustworthy. Something interesting that was brought
>>>up in COG II: The temples of Eloele in Mieres (a vassal of Avan) could
>>>easily be used to discredit Avan as next emperor - after all the Emperor
>>>is the protector of Anuire, of which Haelyn is patron! And AVAN allows
>>>the temples of the goddess of thiefs prosper in his vassals lands? ;-)
>>>
>>You could make that point, but I doubt that who becomes the next Emperor of
>>Anuire is going to be decided by who has a vassal with a temple of Eloele
>>in his lands.
>>Besides, in many places in the books, the designers imply that there are
>>unwanted holdings in several realms, and the rulers have tried to get rid
>>of them and can`t. Just because a holding exists in a particular place
>>doesn`t mean a regent wants it there or is actively supporting it.
>>In PBeMs, IMHO DMs never do a good job of portraying the real consequences
>>of invading your own provinces and burning down holdings. I would think
>>such a horrible action would result in complete hatred from the populace,
>>if you burn down temples that they have been attending for years, or guilds
>>that employed them and all their neighbors. If such an action was really as
>>easy as PBeMs make it, no landed regent would ever have an unwanted holding
>>in his realm for longer
>>than 1 or 2 seasons. Why then do the published
>>realms have unwanted holdings in almost every other domain?
>>
>Because the rules do not prevent it and occupation and
>destruction/divestion is easier than several contests.

...that`s exactly my point. If destruction is so much easier, why do nearly
50% of realms allow unwanted holdings to exist within their borders?

>>Case in point - do you think that because the Brotherhood of Khet or the
>>Society of the Serpent exist in a number of Khinasi kingdoms, the rulers
>>want them there or intentionally permit their existence? How about the
>>White Hand of Kriestal in Danigau, or the Mhor`s law holdings in Ghoere or
>>Gavin Tael`s holdings in Mhoried? Or the bandit guild in Berhagen? Or
>>Kalien`s holdings in Alamie and Medoere? There are many more examples.
>>
>I understand your point. Some Rjurik realms have to add to your list
>guild holdings of the White Witch, about which they are not even
>informed - while the holdings are in their own lands. That is impossible
>in a PBEM unless the DM is super-human and devious...
>
>However even the presence of such holdings could be used by Avan´s
>opponents to show that he has done nothing/not enough to get rid of
>them. Eloele is after all an enemy of Haelyn - even Rhobher Nicholair as
>a firm supporter of Avan would have a hard time arguing to do nothing
>against that temples. Not to act or not to succeed could be pointed out
>as a failure - of a person who wants to rule a whole empire, and can´t
>even bring law and order to his own vassals lands? ;-)

Yeah, but if you were a regent, how convincing would that argument be to
you? Sure you can use it for political ammunition, but most likely if you
were neutral you would see that BS for what it is.

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