On Bloodline Strength And Scores

[Aurel]

Bloodline Strength Vs Score

In the new BRCS will it thoroughly explain how bloodlines gain and lose their potency? I wasn’t too fond of the part that the bloodline scores vary between siblings stuff.
I actually came up with my own system let me know what you think.

Tr Gr Ma Mi Ta
Tr Tr Tr Gr Gr Ma
Gr Tr Gr Gr Ma Ma
Ma Gr Gr Ma Ma Mi
Mi Gr Ma Ma Mi Mi
Ta Ma Ma Mi Mi Ta
Un Ma Mi Mi Ta Ta


The bloodline score will be average of the both parents scores rounded down.
Blood Strength can be raised/lowered is your character loses or gains enough blood points that would bring him to the minimum or maximum.

Bld Str Min Max

Tainted 1 20
Minor 5 40
Major 15 60
Great 25 80
True* 35 --

Should a character with a great line reach a score of 80 he would not go up to True unless he has done something truly Heroic that espouses his bloodline derivation. (examples Andurias-unify Anuire/Kill the Gorgon; Masela- Destroy the Serpent/Bring Back the Masetian Empire, Vorynn- Turn the Vos back to Ruornil, etc)

[teloft]

I like the idee of the blooden one will not automaticly go up from major to great siply by gaining points.

I like the ide of having it 3 seperaited things, Rp reserv, Blood score and Blood strength.

As I sugjested I migth do In my game, when I start one. Im in aa mid process of re-engeneer the blood system. Im even creating feats of blood whitch you must have in order to advance in some classes, like to be a Berserker. you must have thet feat usualy from bitrh. Like in the story of the Irlands greatest Hearo of past. a Berserker. Go besurk, or the barberian rage.

tainted. or less but still blooded, but without the skill of holding much RP.

Like if you take the character creation feat of berserking, you Will always gain more power in the feald of berserking as you go up level. but nothink like you get when you go up level as a berserker. .. Im going off thread here. So Ill stop rigth now.

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by Aurel@Nov 12 2003, 03:14 PM
Bloodline Strength Vs Score

In the new BRCS will it thoroughly explain how bloodlines gain and lose their potency? I wasn’t too fond of the part that the bloodline scores vary between siblings stuff.
I actually came up with my own system let me know what you think.

Tr Gr Ma Mi Ta
Tr Tr Tr Gr Gr Ma
Gr Tr Gr Gr Ma Ma
Ma Gr Gr Ma Ma Mi
Mi Gr Ma Ma Mi Mi
Ta Ma Ma Mi Mi Ta
Un Ma Mi Mi Ta Ta


The bloodline score will be average of the both parents scores rounded down.
Blood Strength can be raised/lowered is your character loses or gains enough blood points that would bring him to the minimum or maximum.

Bld Str Min Max

Tainted 1 20
Minor 5 40
Major 15 60
Great 25 80
True* 35 --

Should a character with a great line reach a score of 80 he would not go up to True unless he has done something truly Heroic that espouses his bloodline derivation. (examples Andurias-unify Anuire/Kill the Gorgon; Masela- Destroy the Serpent/Bring Back the Masetian Empire, Vorynn- Turn the Vos back to Ruornil, etc)

Pg 35 of the playtest document has words about requiring a quest of epic proportions (based on the BoR) prior to raising a scion's bloodline strength.

There will be something similar in the revised Chap 2, still keeping with the info from the BoR.

One thing though - it is impossible to gain a true bloodline. A scion must have actually been at Deismaar or be a direct descendant of one that was and gained it from investiture (again see the BoR).

I don't know how something can be "thoroughly explained" though so this is something that IMO can never be done since everyone's idea of what this means will vary so much. Also somethings are best left for the DM to do on his own ideas/concepts.

[Osprey]

Personally, I really liked Aurel's suggestions for a Great bloodline becoming a True one. If bloodlines can be raised, then why place this arbitrary limit on it? Because we don't want the Gorgon, Rhuobhe, and the Spider to be robbed of their distinction as the only ones with True bloodlines? Because it erases the tragedy of the death of the Roele line? Please... :huh:

I think the deeds mentioned are singular deeds that represent the epitomy of a hero of the various derivations. Why couldn't such an incredible feat raise up an already mighty bloodline and create a true bloodline? If bloodlines could never be increased through actions, there could be an argument against this...but really the "there are no True bloodlines except Awnesegh now..." is completely arbitrary and closes the door on those ambitious and capable enough to raise their lines to epic levels of heroic accomplishment. Honestly, I think it makes for a far better storyline than "the secret heir of the Roele line." Tolkien and a few thousand copycats have played that one out enough...but PC's attempting to forge a new world-spanning empire is guaranteed to be a unique and powerful, maybe tragic, maybe fantastically heroic, story!

I say, if you can actually pull it off...you damn well deserve it!

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by Osprey@Nov 13 2003, 12:52 AM
Personally, I really liked Aurel's suggestions for a Great bloodline becoming a True one. If bloodlines can be raised, then why place this arbitrary limit on it? Because we don't want the Gorgon, Rhuobhe, and the Spider to be robbed of their distinction as the only ones with True bloodlines? Because it erases the tragedy of the death of the Roele line? Please... :huh:

I think the deeds mentioned are singular deeds that represent the epitomy of a hero of the various derivations. Why couldn't such an incredible feat raise up an already mighty bloodline and create a true bloodline? If bloodlines could never be increased through actions, there could be an argument against this...but really the "there are no True bloodlines except Awnesegh now..." is completely arbitrary and closes the door on those ambitious and capable enough to raise their lines to epic levels of heroic accomplishment. Honestly, I think it makes for a far better storyline than "the secret heir of the Roele line." Tolkien and a few thousand copycats have played that one out enough...but PC's attempting to forge a new world-spanning empire is guaranteed to be a unique and powerful, maybe tragic, maybe fantastically heroic, story!

I say, if you can actually pull it off...you damn well deserve it!

Well not being able to raise a bloodline to true isn't really arbitrary it was one of the concepts in the original material. Again see the Book of Regency, which was the first BR material that allowed a scion to even raise his bloodline strength at all.

Since we are trying to maintain as much of the original BR material and feel as possible it makes more sense to maintain that concept then to take IMO the more arbitrary stance that one can raise a bloodline to true through bloodscore raising and feats alone.

The reflection of raising status by great and truely epic feats that are almost singular in application was attempted to be covered by the great heritage template. This was something to put individuals like El Errasi (spelling) more in line with their legendary status.

[Aurel]

Actually in the original Br Rulebook Pg 20 It states "player characters may not start out as descendants of true bloodline(but could possibly discover such heritage later)."

This could be interpreted in several ways. Looking at the Avan and Boeruine bloodlines who have Roele ancestors could possibly raise their bloodline to true after they unify the Anuriean Empire. (The Mhor and Lilliene Swordwraith as well as the Duke of Grevesmuhl may also be able to raise their lines to true.)

Other bloodlines had their champions assume Godhood so not all derivations will have an original true line but some Erhshegh might. (the Treant comes to mind).

Plus in order to even think of having a True bloodline you would have to have reached 80+ bloodline points (not a small feat)

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by Aurel@Nov 13 2003, 10:15 AM
Actually in the original Br Rulebook Pg 20 It states "player characters may not start out as descendants of true bloodline(but could possibly discover such heritage later)."

This could be interpreted in several ways. Looking at the Avan and Boeruine bloodlines who have Roele ancestors could possibly raise their bloodline to true after they unify the Anuriean Empire. (The Mhor and Lilliene Swordwraith as well as the Duke of Grevesmuhl may also be able to raise their lines to true.)

Other bloodlines had their champions assume Godhood so not all derivations will have an original true line but some Erhshegh might. (the Treant comes to mind).

Plus in order to even think of having a True bloodline you would have to have reached 80+ bloodline points (not a small feat)

But the Book of Regency pg 17 states

"Special Note: Under no circumstances can a great bloodline be increased to true. The only true bloodlines come from heroes and villians that were actually at the Battle of Deismaar. True bloodlines may be found among scions born to the current generation of Cerilia, but these should be rare and special occurances."

While on the surface it may seem that the quote from the BRRB and the BoR are contradictory, if read in a broader text they are not really. The BRRB talks about players discovering the "true" blood line of their characters. I read this as the character discovering his heritage and his decendance from a true bloodline, for example the character discovers that he is actually a long lost decendant of the Roele bloodline. Up until that point he has been quantified as a lesser bloodline since it hasn't manifested itself. This is where I think using the Great Heritage template really has an advantage over the suddenly becoming a true bloodline of the original rules. Note that a character still can't "raise" his bloodline to true, he must be born with it - he just may not know it at the time but it was always there.

Also note that there is not necessarily only one true bloodline descending from each derivation. For example there are 3 true Azrai prominantly mentioned - the Gorgon, the Spider and the Manslayer.

[Aurel]

Its true that the BoR has the statement, but most all games under the 2nd ed had restrictions that allowed NPC to do things that PC could never do. In the Spirit of 3rd edition D&D that has largely been erased now just about anything an NPC can achieve a PC can do as well.

In trying to keep the spirit of the original birthright setting we should not see fit to ignore the 3rd edition innovation either.


I think this is a central problem in BRCS Develpment we are trying TOO much to maintain the setting feel that we forget that the game has evolved much farther than 2nd edition.

[geeman]

At 06:50 PM 11/13/2003 +0100, Aurel wrote:



> I think this is a central problem in BRCS Develpment we are trying TOO

> much to maintain the setting feel that we forget that the game has

> evolved much farther than 2nd edition.



Heh. Well, I haven`t noticed that so much personally... :) but in this

case (the why`s and wherefore`s of bloodline) I think it makes a lot of

sense to stick as closely as possible to the original materials in that the

concept is so central to the setting. The concerns some folks have

expressed about changes to the system having larger repercussions (that was

in regards to proposed changes to 3e skills, but I`ll borrow the sentiment)

really can have broader implications when it comes to such a core aspect of

the setting. I like 3e versions of such things, but this one is very much

a "make 3e fit BR" rather than update the setting to 3e issue.



Gary

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by Aurel@Nov 13 2003, 12:50 PM
Its true that the BoR has the statement, but most all games under the 2nd ed had restrictions that allowed NPC to do things that PC could never do. In the Spirit of 3rd edition D&D that has largely been erased now just about anything an NPC can achieve a PC can do as well.

In trying to keep the spirit of the original birthright setting we should not see fit to ignore the 3rd edition innovation either.


I think this is a central problem in BRCS Develpment we are trying TOO much to maintain the setting feel that we forget that the game has evolved much farther than 2nd edition.

The BoR makes no distinction between NPCs and PCs in regards to improving a great bloodline to a true one so the basic point being made is really based on a false premise, i.e., NPCs could do it so we should allow PCs to do it also. Per the BoR no one could do it.

I personnaly agree that NPCs and PCs should basically have the same options when it comes to advancement, just so you don't think I'm being too arrogant or stubborn.

As far as a PC starting with a true bloodline - I don't think you are suggesting that so it really isn't an issue. This would be the only thing that would separate what an NPC and a PC could do differently with regards to bloodline strength.