Secret temple within a temple

**ryancaveney** · 03-11-2003, 08:28 PM

On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, Arjan wrote:

> No these were priests of kriesha that gave him all the financial
> support to establish (ie: create holding) the temple

Regardless of where he got the money, if the PC creates the holding, he
gets to pick which god it is dedicated to. If his backers created the
holding, they could make a temple to Kriesha, and then invest him with it
claiming it was a temple to Sera -- but just because they gave him the
resources doesn`t mean they automatically control what he does with them,
or indeed have any say at all!

I suppose what you`re talking about could be modeled as a sort of strange
Espionage action which would cause the holding he created to be one he
didn`t plan on, but letting that be a common occurrence would throw the
whole campaign into utter chaos. Again, some sort of special secret realm
spell should be able to have set things up appropriately, and the plotters
would need to be very careful to prevent any sign of it leaking out.

> The temple name was GIVEN to the PC Priest, the group gave the name to
> the priest. as in we give you money to... and the name will be The
> Circle of the White Coin

I still say there is a big difference, both in game mechanics and in real
life, between "Here is some money; please use it to make this thing for
us" and "We have made this thing; please take over its operation for us."
Did they give him the money and ask him to create the holding, or did they
create the holding and then invest him with it?

> the Temple IS a "covert" holding, thus in fact a temple of Kriesha,
> but lead by a puppet PC brecht priest of sera who doent know that.

I will admit to never having liked the idea of covert holdings, but I am
nevertheless trying to play along in good faith.

> the group that are "supporting" him also gave him certain rules,
> such as: the lady must be addressed as: the lady of wealth and trade
> in all prayers. (so call sera or kriesha by name is not allowed)

OK, that is definitely part of what I meant about designing a misdirection
ritual that would pass casual scrutiny. What does the PC think of these
restrictions? Has he ever broken (or considered breaking) them? How did
(or would) his backers respond?

> Not if this is posible...because i already did, so it is :)

=)

> but.... how you guys/gals would handly such a covert holding led by a puppet.

What I would say is, in order for it to be possible his backers would have
had to put in a great deal of effort before ever speaking to him for the
first time. Therefore, since their plan seems to be succeeding, they must
have actually done all that work even if you hadn`t previously imagined
them doing so. How`s that for working by DM fiat? =)

Seriously, to get this right is a difficult undertaking. The PC`s
Krieshan backers would have to have known this, and planned accordingly.

Ryan Caveney

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**kgauck** · 03-11-2003, 11:19 PM

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan B. Caveney" <ryanb@CYBERCOM.NET>
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 2:24 PM

> I still say there is a big difference, both in game mechanics and in real
> life, between "Here is some money; please use it to make this thing for
> us" and "We have made this thing; please take over its operation for us."
> Did they give him the money and ask him to create the holding, or did they
> create the holding and then invest him with it?

Some may have heard of one version of the Nigerian Letter con going around
where someone claims they are refuges from tyranny and oppression and if you
could help me set up bank accounts in your country, I`ll give you a nice
percentage of my vast wealth. Some criminals get you to launder their money
for them and you never get the reward you expected. This is similar to the
Nigerian Letter, but with a holding. The people with the resources are
conning the ruler. No doubt they build a 0-level holding, tell the ruler
who should handle the next shrine over here, who should be promoted to
archpriest here, and treasurer there. If they can get the duped ruler to
little more than sign on the dotted line, do what he`s told, and avoid any
questions, it should work as well as any con.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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**Beruin** · 03-12-2003, 03:50 PM

How to handle this situation, largely depends on the goals of the priests of Kriesha. As they want to infiltrate the human population of the Giantdowns, I believe they would bide their time till the temple of Sera would be firmly planted in the region and then try to take over rulership of the temple.
This would mean that the temple of your PC would function as a temple of Sera for all appearance, but the church of Kriesha would insure that key positions would be held by their own followers. Then, when the temple has become influential and attracted a following among the humans of the Giantdowns, the followers of Kriesha would try to get rid of the PC - who has outlasted his usefulness - and take over the temple. If the second-in-command of the temple is in truth a follower of Kriesha this take over would be automatic if the PC is slain or even only absent for a longer period of time. Then, the rituals of the temple would slowly change over time, unreliable personnel will be exchanged until the temple is a fully grown temple of Kriesha.

However, until then, the PC should get a chance to discover that all is not as it seems and he should also be able to find allies , i.e. loyal followers of Sera, among the temple`s clergy.

For additional ideas, you might also take a look at the adventure "Tears for Twilight Hollow" in Dungeon 90, if you can procure it. This adventure has a similar theme and you might be able to borrow some ideas even though it`s a high powered FR adventure, featuring things like a mechanical beholder armed with ten magical wands.

Hope this has been somewhat useful,
Christoph Tiemann

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**Peter Lubke** · 03-13-2003, 09:58 AM

On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 03:20, Arjan wrote:

Ok this thread isnt going the way i wanted, so i`ll try to straighten things out.

the Temple IS a "covert" holding, thus in fact a temple of Kriesha, but lead by a puppet PC brecht priest of sera who doent know that.

the group that are "supporting" him also gave him certain rules, such as: the lady must be addressed as: the lady of wealth and trade in all prayers. (so call sera or kriesha by name is not allowed)
i am still thinking about the woman priest only, i guess the player likes that ALOT :)

so far he is buying all this shit, neither he or the players have any clue this is hapening.

so all i ask from you...
Not if this is posible...because i already did, so it is :)

but.... how you guys/gals would handly such a covert holding led by a puppet.

Oh, easily in that case. The PC isn`t really leading anything at all is
he? He`s in control of nothing .... but he thinks he is. So, unless the
real leaders agree to attempt any of his domain actions - they will all
fail - after all he can`t actually be getting RP or GB unless the real
leader allows him to get some. Now the temple does produce dome RP and
GB (I assume), but control of that is not in the hands of the PC. This
is just a case of misdirection.

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**Arjan** · 03-13-2003, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by Peter Lubke

Oh, easily in that case. The PC isn`t really leading anything at all is
he? He`s in control of nothing .... but he thinks he is. So, unless the
real leaders agree to attempt any of his domain actions - they will all
fail - after all he can`t actually be getting RP or GB unless the real
leader allows him to get some. Now the temple does produce dome RP and
GB (I assume), but control of that is not in the hands of the PC. This
is just a case of misdirection.

Exactly, although it only generates GB at the moment due to insufficient skill ranks of the PC on the neccessary skills (less then 5 ranks collects 0% RP).
I am thinking of giving him an Lieutenant who advises him what to do who is infact the puppet master and a priest of Kriesha.
Then when he has enough skills to receive RP he will find out there is something wrong.
He isnt able to collect them.

Arjan