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Thread: Druids tapping into Source
04-25-2008, 06:06 PM #1
Druids tapping into Source
I have a feeling this was probably talked about a long time ago. But as I was running my current campaign I started thinking about this more and more.
Why don't druids actually control source as a wizard? I can't really come up with any good reason why they wouldn't other than it changes a very big fundamental fact of BR from the 2nd edition rules. I see the variant rule of uncontrolled source could help a druid cast spells, but what I don't like is if an evil wizard comes into a province and begins channeling the lands power to say, create an army of undead ... the druid really has no way to stop of defend against him.
Druids - Typically don't care about human followers. Their job is to protect the land and its natural wildlife from destruction and invasion. Becoming one with it and thus being empowered by it. But according to BR rules, they would be able to cast the most powerful spells and gain the most regency and influence from a major metropolis city with almost no wildlife than from a wild wooded area rich with natural beauty and strong animal life, which doesn't make much sense at all.
My thinking would be to have druids actually access and control source like a wizard. They get the same regency income, money (virtual guild) as a wizard would from controlling source. The power of realm spells they cast would depend on the source level they have. They can not create leylines and can't draw from another province. They do not so much as control nature but to become one with it and draw their power from it.
Now on the flip side, priests of Erik would still be interested in having temples located in human towns and cities because they want to influence to populace how to repsect nature and all that dwell within. Druids would be in the wildlife.
My question for the board is. Would this be unbalancing? Wizard have had the control of source all to themselves for a long time but now they would have competition.
What would be the relationship between priest and Druid? I could see almost a bad relationship between the two. Priests would want followers and try to influence them to respect the woods, where druids would not care a lick about a humans attitude as long as they didn't deforest the local woods.
04-25-2008, 06:28 PM #2
I allow druids to tap sources and establish temples. In general the Oaken Grove prefers temples (and is established where province levels are high) and the Emerald Sprire prefers sources (and is established where province levels are low), but both temples have both kinds of holdings. Its one of the reasons the druids are so powerful in Rjurik.
By the same token, I also generally assign empty law holdings in Anuire to temples of Haelyn or local nobles, and empty guild holdings in Brechtur to temples of Sera or local nobles.
Back to druids, the Emperald spire does really want to keep province levels low, because that's where their prefered power source is, although they don't get weaker (other than having to rule up temples) if a ruler does increase a province. You'll note that Rjurik realms in the north tend to be one or two very well developed provinces surrounded by a bunch of zero and single level provinces. This comports very nicely with how the Emperald Spire would prefer to see things if they controlled both sources and temples. If they controlled only temples they would be idiots to resist province growth, rather than seek to manage it.
It also makes the Rjurik comitment against arcanists very sensible from a realm play pov as well as a cultural role play pov.
Plus it plays into my approach that the most powerful rulers will have two kind of holdings rather than just one. Normally law is the second holding coveted by those seeking dominance, but this power of druids allows them to seek in an additional area. Woe betide the guilds in Rjurik when they get the nobles and the druids to ally against them.
04-25-2008, 08:01 PM #3
You are thinking like I am. I have run both a Rjurik campaign and now a Khinasi. The Emerald Spire was a weaker temple than it should have been simply because of its philosophy and their temples were located had low population. This would really correct their dominance in the their land.
This is coming up because in my current Khinasi campaign there might be a situation where a druid is negotiating for a province in the deep jungles of the Docandragh to begin his quest to protect the jungle from over logging from guilds and human growth. Offering him a level 0 holding in a dense jungle isn't much but if he can tap into the source then it is a great boon. Of course the wizards of the realm will cringe, but that is what makes it fun.
04-26-2008, 12:30 AM #4
This would be an interesting scenario. One the one hand, the druid is just another spellcaster who is a competitor for sources. His class isn't really material to that so much. He's a blooded guy who can manage holdings, so if he can tap sources, whether he's a druid, sorcerer, or wizard, isn't the issue.
Avani and Erik are allies, so that would temper the rivalry from an ideological point of view. The same is true of Ruornil. It really would seem that the PC is just another spellcaster.
04-26-2008, 05:40 AM #5Cheers
DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM
04-26-2008, 07:58 PM #6
Very nice. All great points for letting druids tap into the source. Here are my thoughts to give it balance.
1. Druids realm spells are based off of source level not temple level. Either or might over-power them slightly. I feel they are a mix of using the energy of the land and the power of Erik to cast their realm spells. I think Erik would grant his druids spells depending on how much natural resources they are protecting.
2. Druids are the masters of living off the land and utilizing what natural resources are there. I could see them getting gold bars (fruits, herbs) that are equal to what a law holding receives, but not get the benefit of the virtual guild mages get for higher level source.
I feel it takes a powerful source for wizards to extract resources from the land to get gold, druids can get much more with less. But once you reach a source level 9 the wizards virtual guild income matches what a druid gets because the druid isn't going to manipulate the land for his own benifit, just take what the land supplies him.
3. Druid temples are simply shrines located at the outskirts of towns or in clearings in the middle of the woods where people come and leave donations for Erik. Low level druids or even priests of Erik might maintain it and be a liason to the humans of the area.
4. I see a good seperation of temples and sources. Priests of Erik would more typically have temple holdings and they can't really draw from source. Druids would hold source and not typically temples. Having a high level temple really is the opposite of what they are going for.
04-26-2008, 11:18 PM #7
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04-26-2008, 11:32 PM #8
I have it that the Oaken Grove is the temple based wing of the faith of Erik, and would prefer to see them casting realm spells through temples. The Emerald Spire is the organization that is source based and casts its realm spells through sources.
Its true that nearly all clerics of Erik are part of the Oaken Grove, but I would draw the line at the organization, rather than the class of the character. Members of the druid class in the OG would use temples, as would other classes (such as skalds or seidhr/shamans).
Where the ES is really about preserving nature in its origainal state, the OG is more about being the protectors of the Rjurik people and teaching Erik's wisdom to people who have embraced a more modern way of living. As such the OG is the temple version of the faith.
So I'd come from the either/or school.
04-26-2008, 11:35 PM #9
level Rjurik provinces for me to impose this requirement. If it worked this way, the ES would be happy (and encourage rulers) to rule everything up to level 1, then stop and focus on a central province. Since its cheap and desirable for every other kind of ruler to do this, it would be that way already if it benefited druids to do this too.
04-27-2008, 12:26 AM #10
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temple holding level 0 is fine too, i used level 1 as an example, and as i remember we are not talking here about Rjurick druids only, i am speaking about druids in general on Cerilia. For an example the province levels in Brechtur are not so small.
Point is that druid branch of Erik's religion still is a group of divine casters that need some place of worship, which is represented with temple holding 0 at least.
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