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  1. #1

    Post My crucial Birthright problem

    greetings,

    I just was informed by http://easydamus.com/character.html

    that I am a lawful good rogue level 4 with lowest stat 12...???? :confused:

    My problem with Birthright: The blood is too weak!

    Even demon or dragon blooded characters of minor line get more boni and feats. Seriously, even in the official stuff. SPICE IT UP.

    I consider bloodline should be a stat like all others (range 3 -25, 9 to 18 at start). Bld 16 would mean at minimum three blood abilities and depending on tainted, minor, major and greater would be the choice of them.

    Even in a low-magic campaign world it simply can't be that any cleric is more powerful, than a blooded scion... otherwise let's open a troll-bloodline, if BR deities are so weak!

    I really think the blooded scions of the sanctioned chapters are otherwise very well-made, yet... more blood abilities for proper characters!

  2. #2
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    What relation does the website or your character have to your Birthright bloodline question? Are you just trying to advertise the website?

    Bloodlines in Birthright have no correlation to any kind of blood template or ability elsewhere in D&D. They were a 2e innovation long before any of those demon- or dragon- or pheasant-blooded spinoffs were dreamed up.

    Similarly, for domain level play and because of 2e origins, many people prefer the old 2e method of determining bloodline strength, as it primarily relates to RP and has almost no use in adventure-level games, like the other stats do.

    I don't know how or why you're trying to compare a cleric to a blooded scion. They're too different things. Cleric is a class, scion is just a trait that has more to do with rulership than anything else.

    I agree that the bloodline powers need some work, but I think we're speaking from such different perspectives at the moment that there's no point in talking about those yet.

  3. #3
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    The issue is balancing scion and non-scion classes. If you make blood abilities more frequent or stronger then you need to give something more to non-scions to compensate.

    The only way around that is to have everyone play a scion, or to make scion a full class - and even then a L10 scion and a L10 cleric (or L10 anythig else) should be of equal power across the game as a whole to avoid player discontent. (If you want an unbalanced system play Rifts). Given that BR is frequently played by email between people who don't know each other well the need for a degree of parity is in my view paramount.

    Personally I'd see being blooded as having a huge non-mechanic impact on the game - people instinctively defer to the scion, the scion has more 'get-up-and-go', creativity, is more memorable, etc - I suppose this could be modeled by a charisma modifier based on bloodline score or accumulated regency but I think that the rule hit would be unnecessary - like nobles in 'realistic' medieval settings scions are simply considered 'better' than everyone else by virtue of the gods blood proven to run in their veins.

  4. #4
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 11:37 AM 4/1/2008, Pauper wrote:

    >I consider bloodline should be a stat like all others (range 3 -25,
    >9 to 18 at start). Bld 16 would mean at minimum three blood
    >abilities and depending on tainted, minor, major and greater would
    >be the choice of them.

    There have been 3e BR conversions that made bloodline an ability
    score similar to what your suggesting. If you poke around you can
    probably find some material for them.

    >Even in a low-magic campaign world it simply can`t be that any
    >cleric is more powerful, than a blooded scion... otherwise let`s
    >open a troll-bloodline, if BR deities are so weak!

    Bloodline does make characters more powerful personally since they
    get a power or two (usually) but its most effective use is at the
    domain level of play. That`s where you`ll find a real difference
    between commoners and scions/regents. Blood abilities are not,
    however, meant to be a sort of gonzo adventure level twist that
    tosses game balance out the window. In all honesty, if you`re
    looking for a campaign in which a half-weredragon tiefling hierophant
    would fit right in then you`re probably going to find Birthright
    rather drab....

    Gary

  5. #5
    I usually just use the ability score level for adventure-focused games. Most Major powers are the equivelent of a feat for a first level character, man, and that's not too shabby.

    I would, I think, like to see a way of increasing focus on powers of the blood without making it manditory: Maybe make "Great Scion" a prestiege class or something along those lines, but I wouldn't say most of the blood abilities are anything to sneeze at.

  6. #6
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatSeanGuy View Post
    I usually just use the ability score level for adventure-focused games. Most Major powers are the equivelent of a feat for a first level character, man, and that's not too shabby.

    I would, I think, like to see a way of increasing focus on powers of the blood without making it manditory: Maybe make "Great Scion" a prestiege class or something along those lines, but I wouldn't say most of the blood abilities are anything to sneeze at.

    The way 4th ed is going this would be a fairly easy concept to introduce.

    A "scion tree" concept.

    But those rules are a long way off. . . . .
    Duane Eggert

  7. #7
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking. You can develop feats and talents based on your priorities-and to keep balanced, the other trees might be given domain-level attributes. Like, a fighter's ability to attract enemy missle fire could be used on a unit-level during war, or even in attracting enemy espionage and contest holding actions towards a better defended holding.

  8. #8

    Lightbulb Thanks & Note

    Thanks for all your replies. PLEASE remember, I am rarely online so don't take my silence as insult, I'll articulate such to distinguish in proper cases.

    I was working with the SRD 3.5 compiled by Sovelior, there is a Bloodline section under Unearthed Arcana and ... damn, even a half-titan or lesser demon gets more than just one or two petty feats.

    The blood of gods is a crucial and unique part of Birthright. I wasn't asking for any help for my own. THANKS THOUGH.

    My goal was once again, to inspire or maybe a bit challenge the officials to consider our opinions, especially when we share and contribute to keep Birthright alive.

    I did most of what I could. One day I may read "The hags contract", find & download red-books and do a full, nearly professional-looking adventure idea, yet ... I am a bit sick of that theme for a while. I had a "Conan" flash recently and I made available more, than I originally planned. I shared (see downloads, if you like) some stuff. My goals is earning money, not pseudo-necromancy on a dying dream. Sorry, a part of me is really adult by now.


    As written before, this is not meant as insult or disrespect, I am just heavily hit by facts and competition. I brought results, I tried to inspire and I tried o be helpful. Not for the first time, yet how much less do people deserve, if they steal my mental property instead of just mentioning me as freelance author or among the support crew?

    My great fascination for dark themes may have made it less easy to perceive: From the day I contacted Arjan and registered, my goal was to be helpful and inspiring as far as I could. I think that has been done, I simply claim I lack skills and resources to do more.

    I am happy that some of you cared to reply and I hope we somehow will get the stunt done and make Birthright rise above such petty projects like --- insert whatever is in the way---


    post skriptum

    The cartographers guild didn't allow this author to download the Brecht-Map... hey, there is no crying smiley???

  9. #9
    Senior Member ploesch's Avatar
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    Paper, I think you may slightly misunderstand what being blooded means.

    first off, your not a half god. You have some divine essense in you, and the more of this essence you posess the more blood abilities you get, but even the most powerful bloodlines are no more than a 1/1,000 of a gods power, I'm talking Gorgon. At that level you wouldn't be able to claim any abilities of say a demon or titan. Most Bloodlines are in the 1/1,000,000,000 of a gods power.

    Secondly, the main point of being a scion, or being blooded is not adventure level abilities. The main purpose is being able to effectively rule. You see, even a half-titan, lesser demon couldn't rule in cerilia without being blooded. They might be able to cause allot of trouble, but they wouldn't account for much more than a random event.
    When you play the game of thrones you win or you die.
    George R. R. Martin - A song of Ice and Fire

  10. #10
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    What I see as the major difference between the UA bloodline system and the BR one is that the UA system is essentially a way of handling a "transformation". As you progress in character level you gradually "transform" or become more like the creature type that is the source of the bloodline. That is one reason I thought that would be a decent system to pattern the awn/ershegh transformation process and serve to make a distinction between the normal bloodline score increase benefits.

    The BR bloodline system is less about becoming more like the source as you progress in character levels as it is about getting more "gifts" that reflect that heritage. Which is primarily reflected in being a better regent - which is the primary "gift".

    It is impossible with the BR bloodline system to progress to a true bloodline via any means, well I guess you could do it via bloodtheft on a scion with one (but see the reference to the number in existence with true bloodlines). You either managed to start with one (with required both a close proximity to the deity and close alignment with that deity's beliefs) or inherited it via being a direct descendent of one that was there. Note that there are no documented scions remaining with true bloodlines other than the awnies who have an Azrai bloodline.
    Duane Eggert

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