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05-01-2007, 03:16 AM #1
Discussion thread for Avanil. If you would like to add a comment, click the Post Reply button.
05-01-2007, 03:17 AM #2
05-01-2007, 08:19 AM #3
05-01-2007, 02:16 PM #4
I have the arms of Avanil up, I'm wondering if anyone has actually done work on the provinces which they believe should be represented.
I would have no problem assigning arms to each of the provinces, but I would rather get imput from people who have DM's the area or otherwise already done work on the area. Wilenburg posted the foundational information we used in Avanil, and may have ideas. Jaleela, who had arms for Diemed may well have done work on Avanil's provinces. Or, heads up, Diemed's provinces.
Even when I put stuff up, its tenative. I put up the arms of Danigau I made based on ideas Andrew Tall gave me, but I also really like Jaleela's idea of using a wolf and canting Wulf Danig's name.
05-01-2007, 03:04 PM #5
I'm not sure if it's my resolution, but the coat of arms for Avanil looks a little fuzzy, as if you had an image degradation when you uploaded it. Also, on a purely stylistic point of view, the eagle looks like it's two-faced rather than two-headed, because you can't see the break between its heads.
Incidentally, what do the Imperial arms look like?
05-07-2007, 03:57 AM #6
05-07-2007, 06:02 AM #7
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Chelmsford, Essex, England
Well the interesting question is what lands did Michael Roele have as his own? The Roele family should have controlled directly lands equal to those of any duke and the land needs to be right next to the Imperial City...
I don't see it as a realistic possibility that the Roele family held the Crown for a millennia without having substantial lands and wealth of their own - another family would have dislodged them easily.
So to me Avanil would have been the Roele lands - or at least part of it, with the Avan family a cadet branch of the Roele's. Possibly the head of the Avan family left the day-to-day running of Avanil to the 'Duke of Avan' and took the honourific 'Roele' or suchlike in practice when they took the Iron Throne - only the novels really cover this time to give us clues and the writers on occasion appear not to have been clearly informed about the history and system of which they wrote.
That sort of interpretation wouldn't make the Avan claim to the Iron Throne much better than anyone else's - they presumably took the lands after the main family line died out and other families are just as related to the main Roele bloodline, but it would explain why they took the imperial arms as their own (imitation is the greatest form of flattery - and a constant reminder to others of the Avan imperial roots)
An alternative is just to simply say that Avan wants to be Emperor and made his shield look like the Imperial Shield to make clear that he sees himself as the next best thing to a Roele - let's face it, who could stop him simply claiming it? The chamberlain and possibly the temples of Haelyn might need to be placated but that's about it.
05-07-2007, 09:35 AM #8
In my campaign Avanil's coat of arms resembles Imperial heraldry showing openly Avan's ambition, but instead of the red two-headed eagle, its red two-headed dragon on a white shield. But original Avanil's shield was a red dragon (one head Oo; ) on an orange shield.
And for me the original Roele's realm was over the land bridge between Aduria and Cerilia, which was destroyed in Godswar. So what remained of their kingdom is now under the Straits of Aerele."If the wizards and students who lived here centuries ago had practiced control - in their spellcasting and in their dealings with the politics of the empire - you would be studying in a tall tower made by the best dwarf stone masons, not in an old military barracks."
Applied Thaumaturgy Lector of the Royal College of Sorcery to new generation of students.
05-07-2007, 06:28 PM #9
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Chelmsford, Essex, England
empire? Without a solid power-base they could not have held the throne against a rebellious duke or even paid for the throne. A king (or emperor) needs land to raise troops, provide him with gravitas (who respects an unlanded noble?) and simply to earn money to pay for the realm - and an empire does not come cheap.
05-07-2007, 06:38 PM #10
Ruins of Empire: The arms of Darien Avan are shown as Darien wearing a red tabard with a two headed gold Imperial eagle.
The Imperial arms that Roele wears on the DM screen and other original material is parti-per pale Gules and Argent, an Imperial eagle Or, a serpent proper in its talons. I can't remember off the top of my head if there is a crown at the honour point above the eagle's head. If you take into account that the eagle will break one of the accepted practises (half the gold eagle is on the white part of the shield), it might make more sense to change the field color and/or the charge, or outline the eagle on the argent side with black so it stands out.
So they are different, but show a differencing to show Avan's ambition, but may also show that he is related to the Roele's by blood.
Avan, as stated above, could be a cadet branch of the Roele family. Also Avan's does not have the serpent, representing Azrai, in its talons.
Not all differencing of arms happens with a label or crescent, or even a border. Sometimes it is a simple color change or addition of lesser charges or the removal of some.
Last edited by Jaleela; 05-07-2007 at 06:46 PM.
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