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  1. #1

    Domain level feats

    There has been some comments that the domain level feats(master adminstrator, etc) are cheese, power gaming, etc, etc.Comments?I particularly want to hear the dev's thoughts on this.

  2. #2
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    They were specifically designed to address the domain level of play.


    There was a lot of discussion of the master level feats and how to address them so that is how they ended up being where they are. Notice the skill rank prerequisites for the feats. They have a minimum of 9 ranks in the key skill which makes a minimum of 6th level character before being eligible to take them. These are ranks and not total modifiers.

    By that time a +2 to a domain action is not that great a deal. The regent will have a minimum of +1 (most likely +2 or 3) already due to the skill ranks and ability modifiers.

    Now the one that does cause issues is Regent Focus. Since it applies to a type of domain action and gives a +4 to all checks. This can be really bad for game play if playing a primarily domain level game. I plan on including in Chap 8 some suggestions for how to make adjustments for the different styles of play (mostly adventure and mostly domain level). The rules are based on a mix of the two and when the PC needs to be prepared for both adventure level and domain level play the mere fact that the player has to choose which feats to pick makes it more balancing. Let's face it a player has little incentive to take things like power attack and combat reflexes in a primarily domain level game.

    The suggestions for Regent Focus for a primarily domain level game will be that it applies only to 1 type of holding. So it would Regent Focus - Rule Source holding instead of Regent Focus - Rule holding that applies to any type of rule action.

    This type of thing should help level the playing field a lot.
    Duane Eggert

  3. #3
    Its odd that no one has bothered to argue their points here......

    Generally the impression is that the +2 applies to -every- action.....so in theory you could have the initial domain action(say, rule holding), followed by court actions, then x3 for each round........the argument being that it stacks and saves the regent far too much RP,especially if you are in a low bloodline score area.

    IMHO i think its fine, regent focus can do with a slight nerf to a specific type of holding only though.

    I will say this again..........if you run a domain based game with next to no adventures there is no point to taking the non-domain level feats and that is not your players fault for doing the smart thing(i disagree that this is powergaming) nor is it the BRCS's fault.....you might as well get pissed when players take combat feats instead of domain level feats when its a adventure based game with no domain level play.Seriously if you want to focus on domain level play you have to expect that things that affect you on the domain level are going to be a lot more important than stuff like "Cleave" for example, and this is perfectly natural.Players will of course, choose the more important feats and you cant blame them as "powergaming" for that.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    The suggestions for Regent Focus for a primarily domain level game will be that it applies only to 1 type of holding. So it would Regent Focus - Rule Source holding instead of Regent Focus - Rule holding that applies to any type of rule action.
    I run a mixed adventure/domain tabletop game, and apply these specifics to Regent Focus already (+4 is a BIG domain bonus, so it should be specific).

    To balance the feat's offensive domain power, I also allow regents to take Regent Focus: Defend [Law, Guild, Temple, or Source] Holding. This adds a passive +4 DC to any Contest actions against the regent's holdings of the specified type. Such regents are skilled at "entrenching" their political positions, making them difficult to dislodge once established.

    Osprey

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    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Question
    Its odd that no one has bothered to argue their points here......

    Generally the impression is that the +2 applies to -every- action.....so in theory you could have the initial domain action(say, rule holding), followed by court actions, then x3 for each round........the argument being that it stacks and saves the regent far too much RP,especially if you are in a low bloodline score area.
    This is wrong. Court actions are not performed personally by the regent, except when he chooses to use his standard action to perform one and then if he also uses his character action it becomes a full domain action.

    In order to apply skill modifers (including feats) to a domain check you must use a full domain action.

    In order to gain the benefits of personal skills and feats a regent has to personally use them - hence the full domain action.

    It is possible to have a a Lt apply his personal skill ranks and feats when he personally performs the action (i.e., uses his character action in addition to the standard domain action for the round).

    Just for the record I was an opponent of having Regent Focus give a +4 to the action. I wanted it to match the Skill Focus feat (a +3) but was outvoiced (and voted) to make it a +4 due to the infrequency of its use in a mixed game when compared to Skill Focus.

    Full domain action: Some standard domain actions are so important that the regent chooses to (or must) personally oversee the action. A full domain action consists of both the standard domain action that is the focus of the regent's mechanism of governance and the regent's character action. A regent can spend regency to support full domain actions. A regent that personally oversees the affairs of his realm is eligible to gain bonuses to domain action checks due to skill synergies.

    Skill modifier: (Full domain actions only) +1 for every 5 ranks that the regent has in the relevant skill. Each domain action is dependent on a specific skill listed in its description. If the regent sacrifices his character action to take a personal hand in the implementation of the domain action, then the domain action receives a bonus proportionate to the regent's skill.
    Last edited by irdeggman; 01-11-2006 at 11:21 PM.
    Duane Eggert

  6. #6
    Ah i see.Some people were saying you could get the bonus with realm actions, my bad.

    TBH the wording never mentions feats at all, just skills......perhaps change the wording?

  7. #7
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Question
    Ah i see.Some people were saying you could get the bonus with realm actions, my bad.

    TBH the wording never mentions feats at all, just skills......perhaps change the wording?
    Yes that is something to be done when the chapter is revised.
    Duane Eggert

  8. #8
    So why the move to add +Skill rolls to domain action versus 2nd edition and feats that add to domain actions?

    The only skill based effects that I remember were Administration (lowered maintenance) and Leadership (allowed you to do a skill check to raise loyalty in one country.) So based on what I have read from the BRCS and this forum, a 10th level fighter can save (mostly in regenncy points) up to 6 (+2 to having a skill at 10 and +4 for Regent Focus) regency points.

    If done during three turns in a domain turn, the regent is saving 18 regency points or basically three level 6 holdings (or six level 3 holdings...you get the deal). 18 regency points (or even gold depending on the action) seems like a large advantage.

    I tried looking in the forum for the "development" notes, but couldn't find any.

  9. #9
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autarkis
    So why the move to add +Skill rolls to domain action versus 2nd edition and feats that add to domain actions?

    The only skill based effects that I remember were Administration (lowered maintenance) and Leadership (allowed you to do a skill check to raise loyalty in one country.) So based on what I have read from the BRCS and this forum, a 10th level fighter can save (mostly in regenncy points) up to 6 (+2 to having a skill at 10 and +4 for Regent Focus) regency points.

    If done during three turns in a domain turn, the regent is saving 18 regency points or basically three level 6 holdings (or six level 3 holdings...you get the deal). 18 regency points (or even gold depending on the action) seems like a large advantage.

    I tried looking in the forum for the "development" notes, but couldn't find any.
    Correct.

    This was done by design to emphasis the importance of skills and ranks. In 2nd ed things were no where near as skill oriented as they are in 3.5.

    The domain system was something that made for a pretty close port into the d20 skill system.

    It was decided early on to remove the connection to classes that 2nd ed had for gathering RP from holdings and instead to focus on skills that were class skills for the "prefered" classes. That way anyone could gain RP (except for sources and temples which have a more mystical connection and hence the spellcaster requirement) if they applied themselves by gaining ranks in the associated skills.

    That covers gaining RP but the same logic applies to performing domain actions.

    In 2nd ed there was a d20 roll with modifiers - this translates pretty faithfully to what a skill check is. The question was to find the correct skill to use to resolve the domain action. Then the question came up how do we reflect a level of "skill" at performing these actions? Hence the ranks/5 as a modifier.

    This was discussed (and voted on) to be changed to "total modifiers" to include natural talent and inclination in a skill.

    Now "saving" RP is really a misnomer, what really happens is that the regent can save his RP to apply to the bidding war that would result for attempting an action. This provides more incentive to engage in bidding against a regent performing an action, somehting many felt reflected the "feel" of the original game.

    One thing that the latest set of polls on domain actions reflected was a desire to increase the dependance/effect of RP on domain actions. The exact mechanics couldn't be agreed to but the desire to increase the effects of RP on actions (vice straight GB) was what I gleaned out of the discussions surrounding the polls.
    Duane Eggert

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