Magician Spell List

[cccpxepoj]

if druids and rangers can draw their power from "nature itself" then what Erik represents, the mighty god of acorns an leafs ??????
or he is giving them power even they do not acknowledge him as their god.

[irdeggman]

if druids and rangers can draw their power from "nature itself" then what Erik represents, the mighty god of acorns an leafs ??????
or he is giving them power even they do not acknowledge him as their god.

First off druids can draw power from nature itself or a god of nature.

PHB pg 33

Religion:

A druid reveres nature above all. She gains her magical

power either from the force of nature itself or from a nature deity.

The typical druid pursues a mystic spirituality of transcendent union

with nature rather than devoting herself to a divine entity. Still,
some druids revere or at least respect either Obad-Hai (god of
nature) or Ehlonna (goddess of the woodlands).

And (I was mistaken per the 3.5 PHB)

Rangers draw their spell power directly from nature itself

PHB 46

Religion:
Though a ranger gains his divine spells from the power of nature, he like anyone else may worship a chosen deity. Ehlonna (goddess of the woodlands) and Obad-Hai (god of nature) are the most common deities revered by, though some prefer more martial deities.

Now this dicotemy in the PHB (generic rules) does not cause a conflict with the BR setting specific ones, IMO.

Druids (in BR) draw their power from Erik (thus eliminating the option of directly from nature) and rangers draw theirs directly from nature (thus allowing elves to cast divine spells without worhipping a deity).

Rjurik rangers can still (and will) pay homage to Erik, but do not draw their spells from him.

[irdeggman]

Also a cannon...

Taken from Atlas of Cerilia (AD&D Birthright):

... the old gods favored humans to such extent that elves found themselves practically powerless.

Let's look at the full text of the paragraph in question:
I think it helps provide perspective as to what is being referred to here (that is it was the priests who made the difference with their magic and not the gods themselves). Now in PS of Tuarhievel it talks about the overwhelming numbers of humans which leads one to believe it had a lot to do with numbers (and possibly the priestly magic being the difference).


Atlas pg 6 (complete sectional quote for use of context):

“Still, the elves were pushed back year after year because of an element they had never encountered – priestly magic. The elves could easily call upon the forces inherent in wood and water, field and air, but had never worshipped deities – and thus, could not even begin to understand this new source of power. The human priests were the deciding factor against the elves’ expertise in magic and combat, the old gods favored humans to such an extent that the elves found themselves practically powerless.”

[ShadowMoon]

I support the idea that nature gives power to druids and rangers, but if You quote PHB, then You have to agree with Priests not serving a deity...


Regarding PS Tuarhievel; I'll give it a look today, its been a while. And even then, Atlas points that gods openly favored humans, so it is obvious that it was not usual divine magic at work, maybe maximized effect, etc...


...

[cccpxepoj]

First off druids can draw power from nature itself or a god of nature.

PHB pg 33



And (I was mistaken per the 3.5 PHB)

Rangers draw their spell power directly from nature itself

PHB 46

Now this dicotemy in the PHB (generic rules) does not cause a conflict with the BR setting specific ones, IMO.

Druids (in BR) draw their power from Erik (thus eliminating the option of directly from nature) and rangers draw theirs directly from nature (thus allowing elves to cast divine spells without worhipping a deity).

Rjurik rangers can still (and will) pay homage to Erik, but do not draw their spells from him.

a lot of things in cerilia is different then in the standard D'n'D, but that is a standard question if the nature itself can provide power to its followers, than why no one pray to nature and why we have human god representing it.
If Erik is not nature, what is nature, and what is druidic magic ?
Power of the land, then what is arcane magic ?
Or maybe i am mistaking maybe the Erik is just a god of Rjuric,forests & tundra

[irdeggman]

I support the idea that nature gives power to druids and rangers, but if You quote PHB, then You have to agree with Priests not serving a deity...

I qooted the PHB to point out the generic rules and then I followed up with the how the setting specific ones would work.

So no, for the BR setting I do not have to agree that priests (and paladins for that matter) can not folow a deity.

The PHB allows for both - the setting has specified a restriction. They are not in conflict the generic rules allow for the setting to have its "restrictions".

Regarding PS Tuarhievel; I'll give it a look today, its been a while. And even then, Atlas points that gods openly favored humans, so it is obvious that it was not usual divine magic at work, maybe maximized effect, etc...

...

Maybe, maybe not.

The fact that the elves had no clerical magic at all is a rather large difference,

If they were limited to some rangers (again, not the favored class of elves). In 2nd ed elves were limited to 12th level rangers and 9th level bards (with the potential for higher levels due to better ability scores). But that still gave them access to very few ranger spells, rangers didn't get spells until somewhere areound 4th (or 5th I can't recall exactly the number in 2nd ed) and their spells were of lesser power than were cleric/priest ones were.

2nd ed bards had no healing magics - in BR they were limited to Illusion, Divination and Enchantment spells period.

So very little (to no) healing magics available. Very little (to no) buff magics available. Bless, Aid and Prayer were not wizard spells in 2nd ed so bards couldn't have cast them in any setting.

Elves would have shunned the larger area damaging spells like fireball due to the potential to harm the forest, while lightning bolt might work it is still much less effective against armies. And the charm spellls, while real usefull tend to only affect small numbers that are bunched up and close to the caster.

[irdeggman]

a lot of things in cerilia is different then in the standard D'n'D, but that is a standard question if the nature itself can provide power to its followers, than why no one pray to nature and why we have human god representing it.
If Erik is not nature, what is nature, and what is druidic magic ?
Power of the land, then what is arcane magic ?
Or maybe i am mistaking maybe the Erik is just a god of Rjuric,forests & tundra

You are only going to confuse yourself by over analyzing this.

Rangers get their power directly from nature (no god required).

Druids can (and could IIRC) get their power from nature or a deity of nature.

In BR things are indeed different. All druids are priests of Erik (hence no direct from nature powers there).

Rangers do not require the intervention of a deity to grant them their spells. This is consistent with BR as a setting, It allows elven rangers as well as human ones and rangers in areas where Erik is not real influential.

[irdeggman]

If Erik is not nature, what is nature, and what is druidic magic ?

This might be the source of the confusion.

The deity of nature is not the same thing as nature itself.

In general, nature is a larger force and a nature deity is usually relegated to oversight, protection and nurturing of nature. Not the actual forces of nature.

This is why in a generic setting there are nature deities and druids and rangers who do not get their powers from the deity.

In most settings druids get their spells from nature directly without the intervention of a nature deity.