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  1. #1
    Site Moderator Magian's Avatar
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    Hi,

    I don't think the rules specifically state this anywhere so please correct me if I am wrong.

    In my campaign I am allowing a character to contest someone's holding then rule up their own thereby (if all slots are filled) reducing the contested holding by one and raising the ruled holding by one. At first look it may seem to make more sense to simply contest a second time and destroy the opposition, however contest and rule are realm actions (multiple province) and a character could increase their hold like this. If this is done to a level 1 holding however and it is successful the holding is destroyed because there can be no contested 0 level holdings.

    This may be skipping an action and creating a short cut but I like this idea because the contest should be that. Also this eliminates the character from investing an entire contested holding, that was my main purpose for this, to make it more of a contest. Two actions are still required so I think it can work out.

    The invest holding I reserve for occupied holdings, not contested.

    Let me know if I have overlooked the obvious here. I am sure I have.
    One law, One court, One allied people, One coin, and one tax, is what I shall bring to Cerilia.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Lawgiver's Avatar
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    This is the way I do Contest Actions in my campaign. http://<a href="http://fan_of_enoch....tripod.com</a> Contest is designed to attack/destroy your opponents holdings. You cannot simultaneously increase your own, but it does free up the space to in the following action.

    Since Rule actions only allow you to build up holdings 1 level at a time you could reduce your opponents holding by two levels and guarantee a slot for your holding the following turn. Another alternative is to send Gweedo your Lt. to burn your opponents guild warehouses and spend your action building your guilds in their place.

    Note: most regents do not enjoy losing power (levels) on holdings that they invested serious time and money in to create. A contest action should not be taken lightly by the target. It is easily justification of war, open or covert.


    Contest
    A regent can neutralize another regent's holding by contesting their influence. If the attempt is successful, the contest holding does not generate regency or Gbs for the owner. A level 0 is destroyed by a Contest action. A successful Contest action permanently reduces a holding by 1 level. A holding may be reduced by Multiple levels. For each level contested the difficulty is increased by 5. (i.e. a level 3 holding has a difficulty of 20). The success number is modified by the difference between the attacker's holding (or province rating , if he's the ruler) and the contested holding. Multiple holdings can be contested in a single turn.

    For example, two thieves are rivals in a province (5). Benson controls a guild(2). If Wart, his rival, has a guild (3) he may contest Benson's guild with a base difficulty of 9, or both levels at 14. If Benson contests Wart's guilds he has a base difficulty of 11, or 16 for both levels.

    Rulership of a province can be contested as well at double the normal difficulty (i.e. 20 for first province, 30 for two). However, contesting a province does not effect its level. Rather it effects it ownership/investiture. A province is automatically contested if the province is conquered during a war. Once a province is successfully contested, it ceases to generate regency and GBs for the ruling regent until:

    The attacker relents

    the attackers loses all of their own holdings/provinces

    the attacker dies

    the defender makes a successful Rule action on a law holding (if available slots exist) or the province level.

    If a province is successfully contested twice (or once in the turn after a successful invasion) an Investiture Action may be performed switching the realm's ownership. Multiple provinces can be contested in a single turn. (i.e. Gavin Tael of Ghoere successfully contests the border realm of Maesford, Alamie. Maesford will not generate RPs or GBs. If Gavin successfully contests the realm a second time all times to the regent of Alamie are broken. The following turn Gavin may perform an Investiture ceremony, effectively conquering the realm without military force).
    Servant of the Most High,
    Lawgiver

    Isaiah 1:17
    Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow.

  3. #3
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    Either suggested way makes more sense than the current rules. Think about it. Sears Department Store does not have to destroy JcPenny Department Store in order to increase their sales. They only need to take some of the market share away. Hence it makes more sense to decrease one by one and increase the other by one.
    Lord Eldred
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    &quot;May Haelyn bring justice to your realm&quot;

  4. #4
    Site Moderator Magian's Avatar
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    What brings me to this point,

    In my campaign Roger Aglondier has used up almost all his resources in his actions and has failed miserably, ruling Ilien and so on. He is now very very poor and Hermedhie has just driven him out of Medoere, now HMA decides to move to increase his holdings again at the expense of RA. This is how I am doing it, through these actions of contest then rule.

    Now I also am considering allowing a player to contest then rule thereby reducing another's holding even if there are still spaces open, this directly reduces and opponent or competitor and I think it is a much more friendly way that contesting twice.
    One law, One court, One allied people, One coin, and one tax, is what I shall bring to Cerilia.

  5. #5
    Site Moderator Magian's Avatar
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    Oh and one more thing, I don't like the idea of contesting someone's holding then investing the entire thing in two actions. I think it is a little cheap, however military occupation is another matter entirely. Military force should have a lot of weight in order to balance the gameplay, espcially when magic works in the real world not just on the superstitions of the people.
    One law, One court, One allied people, One coin, and one tax, is what I shall bring to Cerilia.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Lawgiver's Avatar
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    Orginally posted by Lord Eldred

    Either suggested way makes more sense than the current rules. Think about it. Sears Department Store does not have to destroy JcPenny Department Store in order to increase their sales. They only need to take some of the market share away. Hence it makes more sense to decrease one by one and increase the other by one.
    Thats not necessarily true. You forgot CATOs, Wal-mart, Goody's, American Eagle, Dawhares....

    Guilds are a representation of the major trade organizations, not the exclusive sales markets. It should be assumed that other markets exist, they just aren't the major players that have political influence in the realm. Ed's clothiers may be a nice place to shop, but poor Ed's with his 1,000 sq. ft. Store doesn't have the sway of a major guild.

    Basically, other markets exist so just because one guild is weakened it is not assumed the other is strengthened
    Servant of the Most High,
    Lawgiver

    Isaiah 1:17
    Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow.

  7. #7
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    All the small stores are considered 0 level holdings. Holdings with no influence. However with a little willpower they could become players. Even the guy with 1000 sqft shop could make a run through expansion.

    Now as far as the way things work. It doesn't make sense that a guild that wants to increase power has to totally eliminate the competition to do so. They should be able to slowly take away market share and influence with an advertising blitz that steals away customers but not all the costumers.
    Lord Eldred
    High Councilor of the
    United Provinces of Cerilia
    &quot;May Haelyn bring justice to your realm&quot;

  8. #8
    Senior Member Lawgiver's Avatar
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    How does one advertise in a world were people are illiterate, printing presses are all but non-existent, and most multi-media is non-existent...

    Ideas:
    holding festivals.
    free samples
    word of mouth
    sitting in your sales booth trying to look pathetic...
    Servant of the Most High,
    Lawgiver

    Isaiah 1:17
    Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow.

  9. #9
    Site Moderator Magian's Avatar
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    Here are some other ideas for adverstisment/persuasion that guilds can use:

    Use thugs to convince people they need to pay protection,
    use religion fudamentals especially where the religion is the only source of education to persuade people to believe in you and not the other guy,
    assassinate those who you feel endanger your interests (i.e. the serpent) thus gaining a dark reputation.
    One law, One court, One allied people, One coin, and one tax, is what I shall bring to Cerilia.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Lawgiver's Avatar
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    Magian: I think your Touch of Decay powers have gone to your head...

    Not every guild need be a seedy slit-throat/cut purse haven of tugs. I would love to have a player try to run a guilder PC with a descently good alignment...
    Servant of the Most High,
    Lawgiver

    Isaiah 1:17
    Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow.

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