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Thread: Hjorig

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    Senior Member cccpxepoj's Avatar
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    Hjorig

    I am running the game in this part of Cerilia right now, and i noticed something odd. Hjorig is the only Rjurick realm that follow different faith. And this Rjurick follow the Lirorn instead of Erik. Question is why ??
    Maybe the reason for their flight from Taelschore was not just a question of clan organization( as it said in the tribes of heartless waste,dm's guidebook,page 18 )or they their creed after the flight, that is because the land called Hjorig today was Brecht realm of Gauren earlier, an there is a strong temple of Ruornil in nearby Grevesmull.
    And how the ordinary rjuven function with this "new way" ?
    If someone have some constructive ideas please share it with the rest of us.

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    It's not a new way Its old wine in new bottles. They worship much as they had before and revere Ruornil for his protection of wilderness places. What would be different is the method of instruction. Rather than skalds singing songs and telling tales that instruct the faithful in the lore of Erik, the priests of Ruornil introduce you to a mystery and then though teaching the secret that explains the mystery, which then leads to a new mystery and a new secret.

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    Senior Member cccpxepoj's Avatar
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    yes it is OK but the question why and when, cause there is no other faith in the rjurick realms other then Erik. Did they changed their ways before the flight from Taelshore, in the way( because druids supported other side in the war ), or was it when they arrived in Gauren.

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    I would say this has to do with the pre-existing realm of Gauren. For the Brechts, Erik may be a bit too natural, while Ruornil, has a nature aspect and is the husband of Sera. Being a frontier realm, they still wanted to be true to the patron couple, and so worshiped Sera's consort, Ruornil as the frontier/wilderness defender. Plus strange, new places hold their own secrets and who better to root out these secrets than the father of secrets himself.

    However we get some idea about the coming of the Rjurik. For if they came all at once as conquerors and overwhelmed the place, the religious patterns would have been destroyed with the defeated peoples. But if the Rjurik came seeking shelter and then gradually overwhelmed the society they found, then they would have accepted the old religious patterns and modified them over time back toward their more culturally familiar patterns.

    Upon arrival, the Rjurik settlers found the faith of Ruornil and accepted it as part of their new life here. Ruornil is an ally of Erik and I would say you have priests and druids of Ruornil back home among the circles of the Oaken Grove and Emerald Spire. Eventually some of Erik's specific concerns about nature fade and Ruornil's concerns come to replace them.

    The new arrivals gradually assimilated the old settlers, and new exogamous marriages are going to introduce Brecht and Vos members into Hjorig society. So figures like Otto Thorsson, combining Brecht and Rjurik aspects will be common. I imagine that in the most advanced and sophisticated crafts, young Brecht craftsmen of talent try their luck and set up in Rjurik cities hoping to strike it rich with their skills. Likewise here the guilds would have a disproportionate number of Brecht, and the army a disproportionate absence of them. I would expect the Brecht to be found mostly in the guilds and temples.

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    Site Moderator Sorontar's Avatar
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    Dauren family

    Arjan said in an old email:
    In "heaven of the great bay" ,the description of danigau, it says : "Regent:
    Erik Danig....recently married Katherine Gauren. Katherines family once
    ruled Gaurenstadt which is now the Rjurik Domain (here it comes HJORIG"
    I am trying to clean up these bits of the BRwiki. Is anything more made in the TSR documents about her family's ancient associations with Hjorig?

    Sorontar

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    Member Cargaroth's Avatar
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    Possible Histories of Hjorvig

    In line with the heroic nature of the Birthright setting, perhaps the answer lies with some distinctive figure in the past. Perhaps the leader of the original rjurik settlers was themselves a worshipper of Ruornil and left the Highlands in order to escape the persecution of the druids? Perhaps they themselves or their spouce was a great mage of some strength who was instrumental in the invasion of Hjorvig? Or, as has been suggested, some great figure in brecht history has tempered the overbearing rjurik rule with the more subtle magic of Ruornil?

    Given the pervasiveness of Erik's place in rjurik culture, I would suggest that the Hjorvig themselves are a splinter group of the main rjurik culture, and that their alternate choise of diety if a reflection of a schism. I imagine that this would reflect strongly upon the nature of modern day Hjorvig, particulqar attitudes to rjuvens from the Highlands. The oppressive nature of the modern Hjorvig monarchy might also be seen as an example of the spiritual vacuum created by this groups schism from their worship of Erik (something I'm sure Druids would argue.)

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    The current dynasty has been "rulers in exile" for six centuries. Rulers one might presume of Hjorig, but they could have ruled provinces or some intermediate place, such as around Kvigmar and Hjolvar during the earlier part of this time too.

    As for the Gaurens, I might suggest there is a lordship somewhere in the west (Western Reaches, Western Basin States) where a great family hails with a competitive bloodline, archived some greatness in Hjorig, and now continues to marry regents in the west.

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cargaroth View Post
    I would suggest that the Hjorvig themselves are a splinter group of the main rjurik culture, and that their alternate choise of diety if a reflection of a schism.
    Being away from other Rjurik and surrounded by foreign peoples is probably a sufficient explanation for cultural differences today.

    The oppressive nature of the modern Hjorvig monarchy might also be seen as an example of the spiritual vacuum created by this groups schism from their worship of Erik (something I'm sure Druids would argue.)
    This is wildly implausible give the six centuries that passed from dwelling among the Rjurik and today. I would suggest that six centuries is plenty of time for cultural change to take place, including becoming something different, becoming more like the Vos, more like the Brecht, or some mix of any of those.

    Its also possible that the oppressive nature of the current Hjorvig regime is because the regent has "sociopathic tendencies".
    Last edited by kgauck; 05-08-2008 at 07:00 AM.

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    Senior Member cccpxepoj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kgauck View Post
    I would say this has to do with the pre-existing realm of Gauren. For the Brechts, Erik may be a bit too natural, while Ruornil, has a nature aspect and is the husband of Sera. Being a frontier realm, they still wanted to be true to the patron couple, and so worshiped Sera's consort, Ruornil as the frontier/wilderness defender. Plus strange, new places hold their own secrets and who better to root out these secrets than the father of secrets himself.
    Yes and in the neighboring realm of Grevesmuhl we have church of Ruornil ( "Ruornils Silver Guard") so it is possible that the Gaurenstadt had the same religion, and yes another Brecht frontier realm(Rheulgard) has church of ruornil so that theory might work.
    My opinion is that before migration of todays Hjorigers, they severed the old ties
    with druids, because they( the druids) helped, or they were, opposing side in that conflict. So the new but similar faith suited them.
    Last edited by cccpxepoj; 05-08-2008 at 02:27 PM.

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    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cccpxepoj View Post
    Yes and in the neighboring realm of Grevesmuhl we have church of Ruornil ( "Ruornils Silver Guard") so it is possible that the Gaurenstadt had the same religion, and yes another Brecht frontier realm(Rheulgard) has church of ruornil so that theory might work.
    My opinion is that before migration of todays Hjorigers, they severed the old ties with druids, because they( the druids) helped, or they were, opposing side in that conflict. So the new but similar faith suited them.
    It could be that the druids simply didn't take a side - if the existing church (old fools) don't help the brash young men to defend/conquer their land but the ruornilites will (a vibrant faith that acts!) then the new church will rapidly displace the old. As Erik's portfolio is weak amongst the guilds (i.e. the wealthy) then if the nobles/army (i.e. the rest of the wealthy people) start looking elsewhere for support then Erik becomes irrelevant in the main part and loses political power.

    With Ruornil being strong locally I'd picture that either his portfolio has a key aspect (local ties to the shadow world) or that the local interpretation of his faith has some element that strongly appeals to the local powerbrokers - such as support for strong armies and disinterest in the dodgier doings of the rich.

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