Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 40

Thread: Blooded Undead?

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    19
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Blooded Undead?

    In my campaign one of my regents died and was reanimated, becoming a free-willed undead. Just before doing this he attempted to divest his bloodline into his non-blooded apprentice. Since I know he reads these forums I can't give to many details as to how I handled the mechanics of that.

    The question I have now is, can he become blooded again? I know it is only a matter of time until he slays a blooded character, does he have a chance of becoming blooded?

    I'm already pretty sure what I'm going to do, but I wanted to post here and see what you all thought about this. Again, I can't say what I've decided since Midnight reads here often.

    There's a good discussion about this over at:
    http://birthright.net/forums/showthr...ghlight=undead

    Specifically, what would it take to become blooded in your opinions?
    Last edited by dunsel; 02-20-2008 at 10:27 PM.

  2. #2
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Chelmsford, Essex, England
    Posts
    2,305
    Downloads
    25
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by dunsel View Post
    Specifically, what would it take to become blooded in your opinions?
    An appropriately great story line. If regaining a bloodline - and possibly mortality / a twisted mockery thereof - is of benefit to the storyline and the player can pull of the RP requiredwthout narking the other players, then it works - nuff said.

  3. #3
    Ehrshegh of Spelling Thelandrin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,084
    Downloads
    64
    Uploads
    0
    I have to agree with Andrew. If it's at all feasible, is good for the plot and the other players don't mind going along with it, just let it happen!

  4. #4
    Junior Member Capricia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    BC, Canada
    Posts
    24
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    I'm going to disagree with the other two posters. As per the BRCS :
    "Contained within the blood of each scion is some tiny fraction of the divine essence that was released when the ancient gods were destroyed at Deismaar."

    If the body is undead, the blood isn't flowing. That divine spark is gone, dead as the body that housed it. Allowing your player to "regain" Divine essence into a body that doesn't even have a beating heart is introducing a serious power imbalance into the game. They are called 'blood powers' because they are linked directly to the life blood of the scion. Death severs this link. If death severs the link, you can't "reset and start over". Otherwise I can think of a number of evil regents who'd be all over that plan!

    Of course, that would have its own issues, since Anuire is very much adverse to necromancy, raising the dead etc. An undead regent should find itself the target of a number of temples and good aligned regents.

    I am not a fan of "If it feels good, do it" theory of DMing. It always leads to trouble, power imbalances and players feeling they are not getting the same "cool stuff" as other players.

  5. #5
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    2,178
    Downloads
    4
    Uploads
    7
    At 02:24 PM 2/20/2008, dunsel wrote:

    >The question I have now is, can he become blooded again? I know it
    >is only a matter of time until he slays a blooded character, does he
    >have a chance of becoming blooded?

    This is one of those things that remains undecided. Some folks favor
    it, while others are against, but neither side can really find
    supporting evidence in the existing materials to support their
    opinion. There`s even been some debate about whether a scion would
    keep his bloodline after being raised as undead, and little to
    support or refute either stance on the issue.

    Personally, I think that lack is the best evidence that such a thing
    should not be possible. After all, if it is possible for an undead
    to gain a bloodline one would think that in the 1,500 years that
    there have been bloodlines on the continent some undead somewhere
    would have gained one and been notable enough to be mentioned
    somewhere in the recorded history of the setting. Some regent
    somewhere and somewhen who was raised as undead (assuming he doesn`t
    keep his bloodline automatically) would have purposely set about
    gained a new one and ruled at some point in the setting, and such a
    thing would be worth noting, especially since that character is
    "immortal" just as other (non-undead) characters in the setting are,
    and could still be around. So if it were possible, I think we`d have
    heard of it happening.

    From a simple gaming standpoint, it seems like it opens a whole new
    can of worms regarding the possibility of a character gaining too
    much power and having too much control. Undead regents means undead
    scions means undead scion spawn, and that seems like the kind of
    thing that could get out of control if the DM were to adjudicate the
    system objectively. Many of the issues folks have with the recent
    discussion about aging and experience being problematic when related
    to immortal elves are just as big a problem for immortal
    undead. We`re "stuck" with the immortality of elves and their
    ability to be scions, but the DM needn`t extend that dynamic to yet
    another type of character... or if he does he should be aware that it
    might lead to the kinds of things that several folks find game
    breaking or that strains their sense of the game.

    Gary

  6. #6
    Senior Member ShadowMoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pula, Croatia (HR)
    Posts
    278
    Downloads
    8
    Uploads
    0
    Vampires could be blooded, at least temporary, IMHO...
    "If the wizards and students who lived here centuries ago had practiced control - in their spellcasting and in their dealings with the politics of the empire - you would be studying in a tall tower made by the best dwarf stone masons, not in an old military barracks."
    Applied Thaumaturgy Lector of the Royal College of Sorcery to new generation of students.

  7. #7
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia
    Posts
    3,946
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    What rules are you using?

    2nd ed, BRCS or house-rules? The specific answer depends on the framework to be used.

    Using the BRCS (sanction Chapter 2):

    Technically, yes it would be possible.
    People, animals, and on very rare occasions, even objects in the immediate area of a scion's violent death may absorb a portion of the scion's divine essence.
    So follow the rules there for Usurpation and the section on becoming blooded through usurpation.

    But pay attention to the codifier of "on very rare occasions". Personally I would allow it but I would insert some special mechanic to make it more difficult to accomplish, perhaps haveing a lesser effect (like only half as good as the normal method).

    Under Chap 3 Resurrection:
    Secondly, when a scion dies, the vital energy of their bloodline is released at the moment of their death and absorbed by those nearby. A resurrected character's bloodline is gone forever. They have no bloodline score and are not a scion. They can certainly attempt to gain a new bloodline through investiture or bloodtheft, but their original bloodline can never be restored.

    Lastly, when a regent dies, their domain passes to their heir (or becomes uncontrolled if they have no designated heir). The resurrected character is no longer a regent. Another now claims the gold and regency of the domain that they once held. History has shown that resurrecting a scion often leads to tragic events as the resurrected party is tempted to engage in bloodtheft to reclaim a birthright they feel is rightfully theirs. In order to reclaim their domain, a resurrected regent would need to somehow obtain a bloodline and re-invest their old realm from its current regent (their heir).
    2nd ed rules

    Book of Priestcraft:

    pg 83

    "Should the regent be returned to life at some later time by use of magic, the former regernt doe not regain his lost domain; it remains in the hands of his successor. His death devered the link between land and king, and from that point forward, he can never be invested as the ruler of his former domain again, since the land will refuse him. The resurrected character could possibley win a new domain elsewhere in Cerilia, since he retains his bloodline (unless he willingly gave it away by designating it before his death."

    The 2nd ed material is silent on whether undead can have bloodlines or not, although there are examples of undead (albeit awnies) that have them.

    Actually looking deeper undead can become blooded.

    In the Rjurik Highlands (pg 96) there is a new creature, the Spectral Scion, which is a creature that was slain with a taeghmaevril weapon (hence they lost their bloodline in the process). One of their special abilities is that they can regain a bloodline by slaying a scion.

    One thing is clear though - the act of dying severs the connection between a regent and his holdings immediately.

    In 2nd ed he can never regain them in the BRCS the door is open for him to do so.
    Last edited by irdeggman; 02-21-2008 at 11:33 AM.
    Duane Eggert

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Qld, Australia
    Posts
    93
    Downloads
    24
    Uploads
    0
    I don't see why he couldn't become blooded. Blood Enemies pg 59 the Magian is undead and it qoutes

    "Now, he is immortal, as the blood of Azrai removed the frailties of his undead state."

    I don't see why he couldn't be blooded but I would probably only allow Azrai blood to do this as it is twisted and evil and full of dark power from an evil god.

  9. #9
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    2,178
    Downloads
    4
    Uploads
    7
    tpdarkdraco wrote:

    >I don`t see why he couldn`t become blooded. Blood Enemies pg 59 the
    >Magian is undead and it qoutes
    >
    >"Now, he is immortal, as the blood of Azrai removed the frailties of
    >his undead state."

    Well.... The Magian is "undead" but he`s not standard, D&D undead,
    which is what is being asked about here. The Magian is one of the
    Lost, and his undead state has to do with a connection to the Shadow
    World and the power of Azrai. In a sense, he`s a proto-scion. His
    immortality and powers are already based on the power of a god
    flowing through him, so it`s not particularly surprising that he
    could have a bloodline. If one`s power is based on godly influence,
    gaining a power that represents godly influence isn`t much of a
    leap. His awnsheghlien abilities mimic those of a lich, but he`s not
    really a lich if you line up their abilities and compare them directly.

    I`d also note that the BRCS document`s text on gaining a bloodline
    through bloodtheft/usurpation is also silent on undead. Yes, it is
    possible for all kinds of things to gain a bloodline, or gain effects
    that are similar, and that`s based on some ideas in the original 2e
    setting, but that text was meant to be exceptional rather than a
    general concept.

    So, if the question is, "Can a creature made undead by Azrai before
    Deismaar gain a bloodline (particularly Azrai`s derivation) after
    returning to Cerilia?" then yes, I think that`s possible. If the
    question is "can a regular D&D character who becomes a typical D&D
    undead and gain a bloodline?" then my answer is still no. If one has
    exceptional (read: DM fiat) circumstances then sure, it`s possible,
    just as it`s possible for the DM to have an awakened carrot with a
    bloodline if he so chooses.

    Gary

  10. #10
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia
    Posts
    3,946
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by geeman View Post
    So, if the question is, "Can a creature made undead by Azrai before
    Deismaar gain a bloodline (particularly Azrai`s derivation) after
    returning to Cerilia?" then yes, I think that`s possible. If the
    question is "can a regular D&D character who becomes a typical D&D
    undead and gain a bloodline?" then my answer is still no. If one has
    exceptional (read: DM fiat) circumstances then sure, it`s possible,
    just as it`s possible for the DM to have an awakened carrot with a
    bloodline if he so chooses.

    Gary
    See Spectral Scion for an example of an BR specific non-unique undead that can gain a bloodline (specifically a scion that was killed previously).
    Duane Eggert

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Undead Legion
    By ryancaveney in forum The Royal Library
    Replies: 72
    Last Post: 05-20-2007, 04:58 PM
  2. Undead Legion
    By Mantyluoto in forum BRCS 3.0/3.5 Edition
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-06-2006, 06:17 PM
  3. Blooded characters in Anuire
    By Robbie in forum The Royal Library
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 09-12-2005, 12:42 PM
  4. Blooded Level Adjustment
    By Magian in forum The Royal Library
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 07-08-2004, 11:21 PM
  5. Tragic Undead
    By destowe in forum The Royal Library
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-24-2003, 03:25 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
BIRTHRIGHT, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, D&D, the BIRTHRIGHT logo, and the D&D logo are trademarks owned by Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and are used by permission. ©2002-2010 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.