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  1. #1
    Member Starmage21's Avatar
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    Cerilian Dragons?

    What was the basis for the Cerilian Dragon? I have a player lucky enough to "blessed" with Bloodform as a great blood ability(his concept is that he is one of the heroes close to the explosion at Deismaar; True Bloodline; later corrupted Bloodtrait-> Bloodform).

    With his "totem" being a dragon, I felt that it would be appropriate to use a Cerilian Dragon. As the dragon charts for the cerilian dragon arent complete ,I need to reverse engineer them and develope some statistics to work from to create a power set for the awnshegh who is known as "The Dragon".

    Currently He's got only a few dragon hit dice, and some statistic boosts in-line with the Half-Dragon Template(ill edit specifics later). What powers would you suggest in the coming levels for this awnsheghlien?

    Currently ECL 10, 4 Dragon Hit Dice, 2 Fighter Hit Dice, +3LA True Bloodline, +1 LA Great Heritage

    Opinions?

  2. #2
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    This is a file I made some time back; I researched quite a lot to find all the patterns that have been used in the books so that I could apply them on the Cerilian dragon. The Cerilian dragon is, obviously, a little similar in many terms to the blue dragon. Note that the CRs I put in are token values: I have not yet playtested the stats to see how they play out and assign true CRs.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Member Starmage21's Avatar
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    oh nice. TY for that.

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    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Starmage, interesting concept.

    The "totem" animals were those associated with the "former" human deities. They are listed in the 2nd ed BR rulebook and also in the BRCS.

    Dragons were not "deities" and there is not currently a bloodline derived from them. Likewise there isn't a bloodline for the old giants (see Blood Spawn) or the Sie (same source) for that matter. All of them could easily be lumped together as the "elders" if one wanted to.

    Something else to keep in mind is that Dragons are arcane in nature (hence the connection to a "source") while bloodlines would be divine if using 3.5 terminology.

    There was information in the 2nd ed material talking about dragon bones being "sources" but that is a major difference than a bloodline deriviation.

    There are so "few" Cerilian "true" dragons left that is is not really a good idea to use them so, IMO. They don't fit that way in the "core" rules either.

    Having said that, it doesn't mean that someone (e.g. RaspK_FOG) wouldn't write an adventure with a "younger" dragon in it - but it would still be a unique scenario.
    Duane Eggert

  5. #5
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    Actually, I have already started doing just that; but the scenario still needs work, and I would gladly have all the help I am given. The story is pretty much written, I just need to make the finishing touches and a lot of other minor things... not! like playtesting.

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    Member Starmage21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irdeggman
    Starmage, interesting concept.

    The "totem" animals were those associated with the "former" human deities. They are listed in the 2nd ed BR rulebook and also in the BRCS.

    Dragons were not "deities" and there is not currently a bloodline derived from them. Likewise there isn't a bloodline for the old giants (see Blood Spawn) or the Sie (same source) for that matter. All of them could easily be lumped together as the "elders" if one wanted to.

    Something else to keep in mind is that Dragons are arcane in nature (hence the connection to a "source") while bloodlines would be divine if using 3.5 terminology.

    There was information in the 2nd ed material talking about dragon bones being "sources" but that is a major difference than a bloodline deriviation.

    There are so "few" Cerilian "true" dragons left that is is not really a good idea to use them so, IMO. They don't fit that way in the "core" rules either.

    Having said that, it doesn't mean that someone (e.g. RaspK_FOG) wouldn't write an adventure with a "younger" dragon in it - but it would still be a unique scenario.
    Oh what i meant was that the PC is an Awnshegh, and his form is changing to emulate that of a dragon. As such his "theme creature" as they recommend in the BRCS is a dragon. Its likely he will never have any of the coolness of a real dragon, its just that his awnshegh powers are going to be similar to those of a dragon.

    Take a look at all the other notorious awnsheghlien, and youll see what Im talking about.
    "The Gorgan"
    "The Vampire"
    "The Magian"
    "The Spider"
    the list goes on...

  7. #7
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    If that's what you aim for, I suggest that you jot down some lesser dragons (by canon, a lesser dragon is any non-metallic, non-chromatic, non-gem, non-lung and non-extraplanar dragon [i.e. any other creature with the dragon type]), like the various drakes you can find, or a wyvern. An interesting read on the subject as to the development of the character as a critter is a 2e sourcebook for the Dark Sun campaign setting that detailed the dragon metamorphosis; you should really check it out.

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    Bloodform, if i'm not mistaken, changes your form to be in line with your own base nature. So, presumably, if this character acts like a dragon, he will morph in such a way to be representative of that.

    A PC as an awnshegh. Is the PC evil? Is this an evil party? Or will the good PC's ultimately have to deal with this PC's changing state? I can envision a drama similar to the Manticore's coming out of this.


    -Fizz

  9. #9
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Got it Starmage 21 that "totem" thing threw me.

    I for one though would never, ever have players with "true" bloodlines.

    It just causes too many complications.

    In the original material PCs were not allowed to start (or gain via improvement - see Book of Regency) a True bloodline either.

    The "random" table variant in the BRCS does not nclude true for this reason. There is also a "caution" in Ch 2 about it.

    While Ch 2 doesn't talk about it, basically because it was assumed that players wouldn't be running around with "true" bloodlines, - IMO it should be impossible to change a "true" bloodline derivation to another one via any means. That means it can't be "corrupted". This is tied into how a person gained a true bloodline in the first place. They had to be immediately present and be philosophically closest to the expiring gods.

    True bloodlines are unique. Only the greatest heroes of Deismaar, those who were both physically and philosophically closest to the expiring gods, were granted True bloodlines. Only these surviving heroes or their direct heirs through bloodline investiture have True bloodlines. There are believed to be less than a dozen true bloodlines in existence.


    All known True bloodlines are currently possessed by powerful awnshegh or ehrshegh. These individuals are near demigods and are rumored to be able to grant a divine connection that allows their followers access to divine magic. Some True scions are rumored to have other divine abilities beyond the ken of most mortals
    For the DM: Playing a Great or True Bloodline
    While the rules would allow every player to play a scion with a Great bloodline this is not wise. Having a Great bloodline entails a lot of responsibility that goes with the power. Scions with Great bloodlines are descendents of great rulers. They are born to rule, even if they are not destined to succeed their parent due to circumstances (birth order, etc.) they are destined to become great rulers in their own right. The land itself tends to call them to an appropriate domain for rulership.

    Commoners and minor regents seeking favors and other things that demand their attention often besiege them. Awnshegh and blood-seeking scions often pursue scions with great bloodlines with evil intent. Scions with great bloodlines do not generally spend a lot of time adventuring after their youth except on quests of epic proportions. Their responsibilities tend to draw them elsewhere.

    Due to the detail and attention that a great bloodline draws it is very difficult for a non-experienced player to handle the task, especially in a non-domain level based campaign.

    PCs should not generally be allowed to have True bloodlines. These are reserved for those present at Deismaar and their direct descendents. It is incumbent on the DM to control access to these powerful bloodlines and it should be a story line necessity to invest a PC with one. The pressure and attention required of a True bloodline is even more than that required of a Great one so even more DM attention is required to handle the specifics.
    Last edited by irdeggman; 07-18-2006 at 07:10 PM.
    Duane Eggert

  10. #10
    Member Starmage21's Avatar
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    at the moment, I dont have a problem with his true bloodline. I have no doubt he will have a backstory worthy of his bloodline, and he paid his level adjustments for it. In addition, he is well aware of his weakness as an adventurer in comparison to the other PCs(who are each 10th level), and his blood abilities arent as "munchy" as they couldve been.

    Aside from that, he justifies that he is one of the originals, very close to the explosion at Deismaar. He has the Long Life(great) ability as well. His concept centers around his corruption, and his charcter is Lawful Evil. His background falls within the realm of at least believeability, so I have no problem with it at the moment.

    In addition, I havent played Birthright in 10 years, so alot of this material is new to me again. The systems and ideas of 3.5 D&D arent new to me at all.

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