View Poll Results: What should be the overall concept for the 3.5 Birthright Noble class?
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Thread: Noble Class
09-14-2004, 01:57 PM #1
Hello folks, here's the last major snag remaining in the completion of Chapter 1. If we can iron this one out, we might actually be ready to fully sanction Chapter 1! Besides, the Atlas is waiting on our final decision so it can assign appropriate levels to the NPC's of Cerilia. So cast your vote, and then we can go ahead and put forth some appropriate proposals for inclusion in the revised BRCS.
09-14-2004, 04:12 PM #2
I generally have found myself more agreeable with this:
- a d8, average BAB, close combatant
- lots of skill points and bonus feats to compensate for not-so-unique performance; something like 4 + Int and 1 per 4 levels or something, choosing from amongst skill boosting and some (but not many or too good) fighter or combat-oriented feats.
- LOTS of potential when it comes to handling situations and stuff.
09-14-2004, 07:01 PM #3
Allow me to make a few replies to your comments:
Overall sounds like you prefer the "all-arounder" style of Noble.
4 skill points per level is not what I'd consider "lots" of skill points. I'd call that about average, while 2 per level is low.
8 skill points per level is "lots," 6 per level is a goodly amount.
For comparison: consider that the Rogue has an average BAB, 8 skill points per level (with the best selection of class skills imaginable), a d6 hit die (only slightly less than d8 - average 1 hp less per level), AND some of the best array of class abilities anywhere! +1d6 sneak attack every other level, evasion, uncanny dodge and imp. uncanny dodge, trapfinding, trap sense, and special abilities/bonus feats at 10th level and every 3 levels thereafter- every three levels.
However this turns out, I would urge you and anyone contributing to the final version NOT to underpower the class. The Aristocrat might be a crappy NPC class, but there's no reason the Noble need be just a slightly-improved version of that.
09-15-2004, 03:18 AM #4
- Join Date
- Aug 2004
- (MURP), Melbourne, Australia
i would suggest 6 Skill points per level, and every 3 (or 4) levels gain a class skill of your choice (from a list) and only start them with 5 or 6 class skills.
(therefore each noble develops a slightly differnt class to each other noble, with some specialising in behind the scenes manipulation, while others prefer to concentrate on "being outdoors and having fun"
09-15-2004, 05:30 AM #5
Sorry for that: I actually made a typo there (2 "4s" in the same raw, you see; so down on how many thngs he should get I mixed it up)...
09-15-2004, 08:35 AM #6
- Join Date
- Apr 2004
Hello, I'm new here though I've been into Birthright now for a couple years. Just found this site back in April and told my friends in the campain about it. Since then we've started up a BRCS campain.
Anyway, how we've been handling the noble class in our campain was more like the lesser noble and the high noble. The lesser noble takes after a mix of the rogue and noble, while the high noble takes after a mix of fighter and noble. The noble we've been using is from the BRCS Ch 1 3-04 update.
Basically, the lesser noble has an average BAB, 2 high saves, Ref and Will, skill points, 6/level, and some shadier skills, like slight of hand, hide, move silently, disguise and forgery. Reflecting that they are more likely to learn a few tricks away from their tutors from hanging out with bad crowds, and/or having to find a way to make a living as they didnt inherit much, ect. As for abilities, they lost the wealth, inspire loyalty and battle cry. They gained a variant of the rogues trap sense, it applies to 1 skill of their choice, ie +1 to diplomacy every 4 levels, and uncanny dodge at 5th level and improved uncanny dodge at 10th.
While the high noble has high BAB, kept the high Will save, lowered skill points, 4/level, and took out off disguise and forgery. We from the mix of the medieval and renissance high noblility. We recalled how they got into all those duels from jousting in medieval age to the sword/pistol in renissance, why we liked the high BAB for the high noble. We just kept their abilities the same from the BRCS update.
Overall, the differences are subtle, however, we weren't lookin to push the envelope, just try out some smaller differences at first, and play with them as we go along. So far, we're liking the two different kinds of noble. We're thinking about minimizing the Cordinate ability to just +2, and decreasing the favored regions for the lesser noble to maybe every 6 or 8 levels and giving them evasion and 8/level skill points.
09-15-2004, 11:49 AM #7
- Join Date
- Apr 2004
One thing I forgot to add, the high nobles have some restrictions upon them. 1st they must either be landed regents or come from a line of landed regents. (This one was debated for some time, and we still argue about it on occassion, however, land is what really made the nobility in the middle ages and that pretty much continued into the renissance.) 2nd they cannot multiclass with barbarians, rogues, bards, or rangers (except Rjurik, couldnt decide if any high nobles would really be there or not and as were not playin there we left it more open). 3rd Non-Chaotic.
The lesser nobles had no such restrictions upon them as they have a lot more freedom to choose what they want to do with their lives, while the high nobility, who is in the lime light, has to keep up appearances.
09-15-2004, 03:23 PM #8
(e) Other (please provide suggestions)
d8 hit die, average BAB, good will @ fort saves
Administrate (wis), Bluff (cha), Concentration (con), Diplomacy (cha), Disguise (cha), Handle Animal (cha), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (int), Lead (cha), Perform (cha), Sense Motive (wis), Speak Language (none), Spot (wis), Warcraft (int)
Though I would eliminate the possibility of Knowledge (arcana). Possibly add Craft, Profession, Intimidate, Escape Artist (^_^) and Decipher Script.
feats; Leadership @ 1st level & bonus feat every 4 levels thereafter (4th, 8th, 12th, etc..) , can take weapon specialization like fighter - add weapon spec feats to bonus feat selection.
Favored Region: I dislike this ability very much. Each realm has it's own laws and sub-culture/attitudes. Selecting a region is to broad.
..change to something like..
Influence (or Sphere of Influence): The noble at 1st level chooses a province if he isn't landed. In that province he gains the 1st favored region bonus. At 5th level his influence spreads to all provinces that have a border with his selected province(2nd favored region), this continues at 10th, 15th level etc generating a sphere of influence for the noble. If the noble is a landed regent controlling a domain of many provinces his entire 'realm' counts as his 1st province and later iterations of the ability spread from there. Should the noble want to change his sphere of influence he must spend 100 experience for each province he has influence in AND pay 200 gold (or the equiv.) for each new province his sphere will encompass.
Coordinate: @ 2nd level.
Battle Cry: @ 3rd level.
Presence: leave bits like this to blood abilites imo.
Could add another ability perhaps.Thread Slaying Specialist.
09-15-2004, 05:30 PM #9
- Join Date
- Jan 2002
>This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
> You can view the entire thread at:
> fiftyone wrote:
> (e) Other (please provide suggestions)d8 hit die, average BAB, good will @ fort savesclass skills;Administrate (wis), Bluff (cha), Concentration (con),
Are there rules for using Concentration except for spellcasting? If not
then why should a non-spellcasting Noble have Concentration as Class Skill?
> Diplomacy (cha), Disguise (cha), Handle Animal (cha), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (int), Lead (cha), Perform (cha),
Riding? Which noble would disgrace himself by walking in the mud or
fighting in the infantery?
09-15-2004, 05:37 PM #10
- Join Date
- Nov 2001
- Virginia Beach, Virginia
Fiftyone and anyone else who intended to do the same,
As I read what you are saying you are talking about how to fine tune the noble class. If we do that at this time (via this poll) it will never get any votes in an order to come up with something.
What this poll was intended to do was to determine what tact to take when rewriting the noble class. Don't assume that anything posted so far is exactly what you are is voting on in this poll. This is only to determine a direction.
There have been several different versions of the ruler-only noble posted (any of those can be used to determine the feel of how such a class would work, IMO).
Osprey had posted a warrior-oriented one that can be used as an idea of how one of those would look.
There are a couple of posts on the multi-path oriented noble tha can be used as an idea of how that style would look.
Stating "other" and then basically (IMO) making changes to the ruler-oriented style dilutes the ability to quantify people's opinion here. At least that is how I'm reading what you posted, basically how to change (i.e., fine-tune) the ruler-only style noble.
One thing I would put together from an earlier poll is that if there is a single class-noble (i.e., not 2 separate ones) that it should have an average BAB (the votes were pretty convincing on that issue earlier, IMO)
Fourth Horseman, If I read your post truly (and assuming you also voted "Other") wat you are saying is 2 separate classes (one warrior-oriented, one ruler oriented) but then started to get into the detail of quantifying you concept. While that is very good I think you have also confused what the intent of the choices presented actually mean. If you have an idea or concept that fits into one of the choices given, then pleas vote accordingly. If you have an idea/concept that doesn't fall into one of the choices then vote other. For example, an "Other" vote could be used for not having a noble class at all or having a prestige class instead.
Rasp_KFog, I'm assuming that you are the 3rd "Other" vote. I can't really tell what you are trying to get to with you comments on how to make a noble though. On the surface it looks like you are saying a ruler-only style, but I can't be certain. IMO a warrior-oriented style would almost certainly entail having a good BAB.
I hope this helps. I know that trying to make sense out of a poll's tallying is hard enough even when they fall into extremely clear categories and the intent of everyone is clear. Remember this poll is only to determine how to take the next step and that will be to figure out the style of the noble class and attempt to fine tune it.Duane Eggert
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