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Thread: Mustering Units

  1. #1
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    OK, here's another Ch. 6 issue: according to the current BRCS rules, it seems [though this remains somewhat ambiguous] that so long as one has a sufficiently high-level holding, a regent can muster units that are green, regular, or veteran, in addition to up to one or two special training options for regular and veteran units respectively.

    I've been using this rule for the past year-and-a-half in my BRCS campaign, and here's the conclusion I came to.

    The difference between a regular and veteran unit is pretty large. Veteran units are better than regular units in almost every respect. While this is fairly realistic, for only an extra 1 GB in muster cost, it's getting too much for too little. The result? Every regent in his right mind musters only veteran units. And it's not too hard when you only need a level 3 Law holding to muster veteran foot units (infantry, archers, and irregulars).

    After a LOT of consideration, I would make the following adjustments:

    1. Veteran units cost +2 GB more than regulars to muster.
    2. Veteran units should NOT have a higher Move rating than regulars. This is an extremely powerful advantage, and should be accounted for by special training options like Scout training, rather than unit experience. If you don't believe me, playtest a few battles with the warcard rules [or my battlesystem, which is based on warcard rules but more detailed] and find out for yourself just how huge Move ratings are in a battle.

    3. The only units normally available to muster are green and regular units. The only veteran units available to muster are the one type of culturally-favored unit in the region. This means Knights in Anuire, Marines in Brechtur, Light Cavalry or cavalry archers in Khinasi, Scout Irregulars [rangers] in Rjurik, and Irregular Berserkers(?) in Vosgaard.

    This particular option works best if you adopt something like my War Academy, which with a few levels (level 2 minimum I'm thinking) would enable veteran units of any type to be mustered in the province in which it is built. But the idea is fairly broad: it takes special facilities, above and beyond basic holding types [regardless of their level], to simply raise veteran units from scratch.

    4. Build in options for training regular units to veteran levels, but make it much harder than the current system in the BRCS [which playtesting has proven to be ridiculously easy in almost all cases].


    I have some other ideas on all of this, but this is definitely the core changes I advocate.

    Dan McSorley, I hear that you were revising the war rules, but until I see something substantial, well...feel free to jump in and let us know if any real progress has been made on this section of the revision.

    Osprey

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    I like your option of only the cultural specific units being able to muster veteran. So far, I have only allowed green and regulars to be mustered... with veteran units being able to be trained (cuz there's a skill check involved, so it could fail) or gaining through experience. Allowing the cultural specific idea is one that I think I will incorporate right away.

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    I agree with you that the vetern units should need a place like an academy to train for mustering and cost more. But also need a skill system to determine what type of vetern unit that is produce you you can customize a vetern unit to aka get a emphasizes in cold warfare giving them a bonus to cold conditions or a calvary unit that specializes in recon. to give vetern units a variety and it costs more for them to get the training like +1GB per specialization. This way you can get engineering or artillery specialist.

    An each Culture gets a different type of vetern unit

    Anuireans get a +1 movement
    Vos gets +1 while in cold terrain to attacks
    Brecht get +1 while using naval combat
    Khinsai get +1 to desert terrian to attacks
    Rjurik get a +1 to fighting in a forests terrain attacks
    Elven gets +1 to missiles attacks
    Dwarven +1 to undergrond/urban attacks
    and so forth to the non-humanoid units

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    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    I agree with you that the vetern units should need a place like an academy to train for mustering and cost more. But also need a skill system to determine what type of vetern unit that is produce you you can customize a vetern unit to aka get a emphasizes in cold warfare giving them a bonus to cold conditions or a calvary unit that specializes in recon. to give vetern units a variety and it costs more for them to get the training like +1GB per specialization. This way you can get engineering or artillery specialist.

    An each Culture gets a different type of vetern unit

    Anuireans get a +1 movement
    Vos gets +1 while in cold terrain to attacks
    Brecht get +1 while using naval combat
    Khinsai get +1 to desert terrian to attacks
    Rjurik get a +1 to fighting in a forests terrain attacks
    Elven gets +1 to missiles attacks
    Dwarven +1 to undergrond/urban attacks
    and so forth to the non-humanoid units
    Have you read the BRCS war rules? They include special training options, much like what you described (scouts, toughness, defensive training, etc.). There's no reason you can't invent new special training options, especially for individual cultures.

    As I mentioned before, I think +1 movement is powerful. I would never give one culture +1 movement to all of its units.

    If each culture already has one unit type that may be veteran, why do they need additional advantages there, such as Brecht marines getting an extra attack bonus? Being veteran gives them +2 Attack, +1 Hits, +2 Morale, and +1 Move in the BRCS rules (tho as I said I'd drop the +1 move).

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    I agree. A +1 movement is huge. It means the difference many times if whether a unit engages or stays hit-n-run. Archery units especially would have a major advantage that would be hard to overcome.

    I think the Train Unit action allows for this ability, and shouldn't be handed out easily just because you want to muster a 'cool' unit. Stay with green/regular units, and force veterans to be survivors of a few battles.

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    Another idea is you muster green troops only and a little training(costing appropriatly) raises them. BRCS seems to indicate all units undergo all thier training in one month... The same month the weapons/armor/gear are made and the recruits gathered! Really... there is so much complanit about the rule action not being realistic when its designed to be an abstraction and yet so little is said in this direction

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    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    Green Knight's post about units gaining XP seemed to indicate that in the Ruins of Empire, all units begin Green when mustered and must be trained to Regular or better status. This is a very realistic rule, one that assumes that any unit that is mustered draws on totally fresh recruits vs. those with some combat/army experience.

    Does anyone have any thoughts on this as far as what is appropriate for the setting? Also, what is appropriate for the world of medieval Europe? I know that for earlier medieval times, knights were pretty much the only standing professional troops. In England yeomen were later recruited as regular-type longbowmen and infantry after training was enforced throughout the realm on a regular basis. Also, places that see a lot of warfare tend to produce hardier units from the get-go (such as medieval Scotland, or Mhoried in BR). So it's not a simple one rule fits all sort of situation IMO.

    Any thoughts?

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    Originally posted by Osprey@Aug 7 2004, 02:58 PM

    Does anyone have any thoughts on this as far as what is appropriate for the setting?
    I think this depends a lot on what level of 'realism' and complexity one wants versus simple and playable rules for those who are not interested in wargames. I think for the purpouse of the BRCS it might be best to include a set of very simple rules not very different from those in the original box. Here one can hire regular or veteran troops, with experience not being an option. In addition a mor ecomplex set of rules could be added as an appendix or as a different product for those who wish ore detail on this aspect of the game.

    Also, places that see a lot of warfare tend to produce hardier units from the get-go (such as medieval Scotland, or Mhoried in BR).
    Personally I find this best represented by allowing said realms to have above average experience for their levies, or to allow part the levies to be of a better unit type. On the issue of regular units being more experienced I think this should be simulated by the actual forces of the realm having a higher level of expereince from fighting battles after they were mustered. I.e. if the ralm doesn't actually have a lot of invasions the warriors of the realm won't be any more experienced.

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