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Thread: Trade networks

  1. #1
    Senior Member teloft's Avatar
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    I was thinking up a new trade system to day, and I just had to post the idee here.


    - there are no constant trade routs.

    - new action

    a. Create a caravan
    You Invest in a trade voage, Investing it with goods and sending it away.
    when it arrives back it will bring richess.
    the charavan must have a start point in a trade point.
    the trade point level will be added to the caravan prosperity level
    the GB invested will reduced its prosperity level
    the starting prosperity level of a charavan is 0


    b. create trade point
    you create a trade point.
    the level of the trade point is based on
    the number of guilds you have acsess to.

    if you have a guild 6 in a provience then you have a potential of a trade point lv 3

    trade point potential lv - guild holding acsess.
    1 - 1
    2 - 3
    3 - 6
    4 - 10
    5 - 15

    c. create a trade line
    you create a line of trade betvine your trade point and a guild holding.
    this can also be used to create a trade line betvine 2 trade points. giving the creator acsess to all guilds in the trade points network. Thus increasing the potential trade point level.

    a trade line has a uppkeep
    the uppkeep of the trade line is the same as moving one unit of irregulars every 3 monts back and forth, for every level of guild holding conected to the trade point.


    d. move trade line
    You redirect the movement of goods to a new tradepoint.

    e. Rule a trade point.
    you rule a trade point up one level as if you were ruling up a guild
    the level of a trade point can NEVER be higer then its potential,
    The cost of ruling a trade point is 1 GB per lv. + 1 GB
    (this makes the trade points week if there lines are disrupted)

    f. blokk trade line
    as one war move, one millitary unit can block one level of trade line passing trow there provience.

    g. plunder a trade point
    as one war move, one military unit can plunder a trade point if there are no units protecting the point. you gain GB Total to the points lv.

    h. plunder a caravan.
    as one war move, one millitary unit can overcome a caravan, taking there goods. Gain half GB invested in the charavan.

    i. asign a warcard to caravan.
    you protect your caravan, the unit reduces the GB invested in the caravan to pay for its own uppkeep and movement during its voage. (thus increasing its prosperity level)


    - A caravan is sent when it is created, It finds a sutable trade point in far away lands willing to do buisnis, trade there goods, and returns.

    - Some charavans even stop a 2 locations on there jurnay, trading godds from you with a port A, then trade the goods (usualy slaves) from port A with port B, then bring the goods from port B home. Thes jurneys usualy take longer but bring much more profit.

    I havent done more. !!


    - Possibly give each destenation a prosperity level of its own, and roll on a table incluting a EL table to see wether the garrision will be plentyfull if there is trouble. Or wether there are some other hasards afecting the caravan.




    - some questions are left unanswerd.

    1. how long dos it take the caravan to bring back exotic goods.
    2. how much gain is there for every GB invested.
    3. What will be the efect of the prosperity level on the GB gain.

  2. #2
    I think that its an interesting idea, however, for larger scale games it would soon become unfeasible to maintain, and much easier to just use create/contest trade routes.

    - some questions are left unanswerd.

    1. how long dos it take the caravan to bring back exotic goods.
    2. how much gain is there for every GB invested.
    3. What will be the efect of the prosperity level on the GB gain.
    1. should probably go by the listed speeds in the BCRS for travel, page 105, and a caravan would probably equal an entourage. While if they go by ship along a river or by sea then the speads would be increased.

    2. It really depends on where they plan on going, and what they plan on trading ect. however to generalize, they would have a minimum income of about 120% of total cost to send the caravan. Thus, a 20% net income or profit from the caravan. Maximum could be anywhere from 200-1000%, it really depends on how far they are willing to send the caravan and what they are bringin back.

    3. So, maybe incrase the profit for every realm away they need to travel (realm = determined by landed regents), and increase the profit if the target province has a different terrain type than the home province. The higher the level of the province, the easier it will be to find buyers for your goods, and also it will be easier to find sellers for what you want to buy. Thus making it easier to sell high and buy low, provided you are offering things that are not commonly available and buying goods that are commonly available (like any sensible merchant).
    "Who was the first that forged the deadly blade? Of rugged steel his savage soul was made." --Tibullus

    "Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum." --Vegetius

    "Men grow tired of sleep, love, singing and dancing sooner than war." --Homer

  3. #3
    Senior Member teloft's Avatar
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    Originally posted by tcharazazel@May 26 2004, 11:21 PM

    3. So, maybe incrase the profit for every realm away they need to travel (realm = determined by landed regents), and increase the profit if the target province has a different terrain type than the home province. The higher the level of the province, the easier it will be to find buyers for your goods, and also it will be easier to find sellers for what you want to buy. Thus making it easier to sell high and buy low, provided you are offering things that are not commonly available and buying goods that are commonly available (like any sensible merchant).
    Or it could depend on the "trade point" traveld to and its location. (cultural, climent)

    the trade point is a mesurment on the scale of the market in thet point.

    the trade lines in the network are fully capable of moving goods and market information. they are able to distribute the goods to the varius guild holdings around there network.

    - Note thet the only income in thees ventures are in the caravan tradeing betvine points. the network of points only costs monney.


    - I have done some tests of calcing, and the sout coast + hartlands could only support 3-4 trade points of relitive size.

    The bookkeeping for 3-4 points and there caravans sould not bring about to much overhead, could even siple things in stead of using trade routs thet would criss cross the country.

    Kári.

    p.s.


    4. what do you think of using the prosperity levels. how sould thay be handeld.

  4. #4
    one quick question then: does prosperity levels = province levels?

    If so, then you could just make it easy and really depend upon the population size of the province. So, the higher the province, the more money the caravan will make. Exactly what type of scale you're looking for im not sure.

    The other solution is to not even bother being concerned about province level as guild level would reflect that often, however, for those provinces with many guilds, then maybe just have the rule that you go by province level or guild holding, which ever is higher, would work better.
    "Who was the first that forged the deadly blade? Of rugged steel his savage soul was made." --Tibullus

    "Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum." --Vegetius

    "Men grow tired of sleep, love, singing and dancing sooner than war." --Homer

  5. #5
    Senior Member teloft's Avatar
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    prosperity level of the caravan is the "Trade point" level witch it oriates from.

    the prosperity level of the caravan is there acsess to the local market at home.

    the trade point is created, and ruled up.

    the max trade point level awailable is based on the acsess to guild holdings. (or realy hig sours holdings withc have started to act as guild holdings)


    1 guild holding awailability = 1 "trade point" potential level
    3 guild holding awailability = 2 "trade point" potential level
    6 guild holding awailability = 3 "trade point" potential level
    10 guild holding awailability = 4 "trade point" potential level
    15 guild holding awailability = 5 "trade point" potential level
    21 guild holding awailability = 6 "trade point" potential level

    (its almost the same table as for RP versus Blood)

    I must create a network of trade lines (similar to lay lines) witch all conect a trade point to a guild holding.

    there is NO GB gain from thees lines, thay only make the "trade point" stronger.

    the level of the trade point will be asigned to the caravans going away from it.

    Now you can invest your GB's in the caravan, the total GB invested will be subtracted from the prosperity of the caravan.

    If the caravan burns GB's, Subtract thet amount from GB invested before you calculate the prosperity level.

    the caravan can also have an "EL" depending on how much protection it is geting.




    lets say I have acsess to 21 guild holding. (by agreements with my friends the guilders) and the regents thet controle the land thay opperate in.

    I can now create a trade point with a potential of 6 levels.
    but only when I have created a trade network with trade lines. (witch have uppkeep) The howl network sould have value withc is what I have to pay in GB to support it, this only hapends at the end of a 3 monts season. (or 1/3 every month)


    Now I need to rule my trade point up to what I like it to be. lets say I have ruled it up to lv 5.

    Now I create my caravan, I have some camels, and some fearsom riders protecting it. thay consume 2 GB on there way to "the destenation"

    I invest 6 GB into My caravan thus creating a caravan with one level in prosperity.


    There would probibly be some dice roll depending on the variant time and variant gain from it.

    h34r:


    But i still have a question unasverd.

    1. what will be the efects of the prosperiy level. how will it interfear with GB income.


    2. when there is a need to roll, what sould be rolled. and versus what DC


    3. when sould a caravan not need to roll ?? You probebly need garrision all the way, be sure there will be no bad wether, and have all proviences traveld trow friendly !!! ...

    :blink:

  6. #6
    But i still have a question unasverd.

    1. what will be the efects of the prosperiy level. how will it interfear with GB income.


    2. when there is a need to roll, what sould be rolled. and versus what DC


    3. when sould a caravan not need to roll ?? You probebly need garrision all the way, be sure there will be no bad wether, and have all proviences traveld trow friendly !!! ...

    1) That is a slight flaw i notieced in your system. normally a merchant would get the most cash out of an investment like this, if they send the caravan with more goods to be sold. Then using this money from the trading buy some of the common goods in that realm to bring it back for sale in his home realm.

    In other words, if they send an empty caravan then they are only going to buy goods, and this would basically halve their potential GB income.


    2) For plundering a guarded caravan: this should be a contested warcraft check made by people plundering vs the military leader in the caravan. The result you can scale so if the plundering group wins the check up to 1/2 the GB invested.

    For determing GB gained by the caravan: maybe scale it by the level of the prosperity it starts out with, so the higher the prosperity the more money it will earn, however, this should really just be a modifier to a Proffession(merchant) roll that will determine how much they make. The lead merchant of the caravan would make the P/Merchant check, so not the regent who sent it unless he goes with the caravan.

    Then they then use a table like this to determin how much cash they get.

    Check result: GB profit/loss

    -11 or lower: 1d6 GB lost
    -10 to 0: 1d3 GB lost
    1 to 5: 1d3 GB
    6-10: 1d6 GB
    11-20: 1d8 GB
    21-30: 1d10 GB
    31-40: 2d6 GB
    41-50: 3d6 GB
    51-60: 4d6 GB
    Ect.


    3) This way the Caravan will always need to roll, and really it always should as its not always a given how much a merchant will get
    "Who was the first that forged the deadly blade? Of rugged steel his savage soul was made." --Tibullus

    "Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum." --Vegetius

    "Men grow tired of sleep, love, singing and dancing sooner than war." --Homer

  7. #7
    Senior Member teloft's Avatar
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    Check result: GB profit/loss

    -11 or lower: 1d6 GB lost
    -10 to 0: 1d3 GB lost
    1 to 5: 1d3 GB
    6-10: 1d6 GB
    11-20: 1d8 GB
    21-30: 1d10 GB
    31-40: 2d6 GB
    41-50: 3d6 GB
    51-60: 4d6 GB
    Ect.
    1.

    Imthinking it would be cool to multiply something with GB invested.


    then you will be tempted to invest as much as possible, but not to much in order to keep the prosperity levels upp.


    - How would you do this?

    2.

    the Guild holder would instantly gain som profits from his trade line to somone elses trade point, for the trade point owner is wery likely to pay himfor the conection.

    I was thinking the trade line as something moving goods back and forth.

    I was also thinking the caravan as only incresing in the investment thay have. whenthay bring it back. The prosperity levels are only the terms of trade.

    Goods go one way, difrent goods come back.

    3.

    there could be a prosperity table for each region as well. If somone would like to add some trade goods, then the difrence betvine te trade goods would be the difrent prosperity level of thows goods for the region.
    But I see no need for them.

    h34r:

  8. #8
    hmm, multiply it then eh... ok...

    how about this: 1d20 P/Merchant check modified by the prosperity level of the caravan.

    Check result: GB profit/loss x invested GB

    -21 to -30: 1d6 x invested GB lost
    -11 to -20: 1d3 x invested GB lost
    -10 to 0: 1d3 /2 x invested GB lost
    1 to 5: .5 x invested GB
    6-10: 1d3 /2 x invested GB
    11-20: 1d3 x invested GB
    21-30: 1d6 x invested GB
    31-40: 1d8 x invested GB
    41-50: 1d10 x invested GB
    51-60: 2d6 x invested GB
    Ect.


    This way there will be some randomnesss as to how much they make. And the more they invest the lower the prosperity, and the greater chance for a negative check result which would loose them money.
    "Who was the first that forged the deadly blade? Of rugged steel his savage soul was made." --Tibullus

    "Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum." --Vegetius

    "Men grow tired of sleep, love, singing and dancing sooner than war." --Homer

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    Just remember ta few things:
    1) Raods greatly increase speed (and thus potential profit) of trade routes.
    2) The cost of goods double about every 100 miles moved by land or 1000 miles moved by sea
    3) IFF oxen are used for drayage then there is marginal difference between wagons and carrying of goods on beasts of burden and horses are even more pathetic; if the horse collar has been invented then horses become much more economical than oxen, distances at which goods double in cost becomes about 200 miles by land, wagons become the preferred method, as so forth.
    4) On the line of costs doubling it is a simplification that animals on the move and pulling heavy loads every day can not be expected to rely on local fodder only and require hauled fodder plus grain, as well as a bunch of other factors (feeding people, paying people, etc). This is 1-2 pounds of grain per day per 100 pounds of animal body mass, or about 20 pounds of grain per day, plus fodder. 10 days is 200 pounds of grain and 200 pounds of good fodder per horse (generally 2-4 horse teams). If water is scarce add 80 gallons of water to the list per horse.

  10. #10
    Senior Member teloft's Avatar
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    trading points and caravans
    Is anyone willing to test this system?

    -Is it to coplex,?
    -Is it abstract and scalable to be of servise?
    -Will it increas plesure or pain?

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