Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 25

Thread: Energy Types

  1. #1
    Site Moderator Ariadne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    near Frankfurt/ Germany
    Posts
    801
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    In my last adventure I faced a few situation that gave me a question. I play a cleric and did fight some undead (OK, nothing new). Well, now I tried to fight shadows and if I remember right an incorporal undead can ignore 50% of damage from a corporal source (but not from force effects).

    Now my question:
    If I damage an incorporal undead with positive energy (through a converted "cure" spell), can he ignore this to 50%? Or in other words: Is positive energy some kind of force effect?
    May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!

  2. #2
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Netherland
    Posts
    4
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Originally posted by Ariadne@Jul 11 2003, 12:23 PM

    Now my question:
    If I damage an incorporal undead with positive energy (through a converted "cure" spell), can he ignore this to 50%? Or in other words: Is positive energy some kind of force effect?
    As far as i know a couple of incorporal undead can only be hit by Silver or +1 weapons,and because silver weapons are considerd holy they are of positive energy, but they are corporal and thus a forse.
    so if you damage an incorporal undead with a converted cure spell your hand will be a positive forse with full effect.

    I hope i understud your question and helped you with my reply.

    Xeres

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Posts
    120
    Downloads
    3
    Uploads
    0
    silver weapons are considerd holy
    No they aren't.

    they are of positive energy, but they are corporal and thus a forse
    Even if they were (which they aren't), your conclusion is spurious. Silver weapons (or any + weapon for that matter) are by no means "force effects".

    Spells with the "[force]" descriptor are force effects - nothing else is unless it specifically states otherwise.

    CM.

  4. #4
    Site Moderator Ariadne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    near Frankfurt/ Germany
    Posts
    801
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Well, with "force effect" I meant, what I said. A force, same as magic missile or wall of force. Those things can hit uncorporal undead as well as ghost tough weapons. I don't know if I can add positive energy to this list...
    May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!

  5. #5
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Springfield Mo
    Posts
    3,562
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    uestion. What is positive energy if its not the

    opposite energy of undeath? It would seem to me that positive energy is

    specifically for combating undead. I know of no other characteristics of

    it.



    Kenneth Gauck

    kgauck@mchsi.com

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    BR mailing list
    Posts
    1,562
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    question. What is positive energy if its not the

    > opposite energy of undeath? It would seem to me that positive energy is

    > specifically for combating undead. I know of no other characteristics of

    > it.



    I was waiting for someone to give a straight rules-answer, yes or no, but no

    one has for some reason. So I will, if no one minds. To my understanding,

    this was a simple question on how the 3e rules work. I`ll try to be as

    detailed and clear as I can in my answer.



    Yes, every attack by a corpereal source has a 50% chance of being negated

    against a Shadow. Ariadne says that he converted a cure spell. Just so

    we`re clear: a cure spell doesn`t have to be converted to anything. You can

    convert other spells to cure spells at will if you are a good or neutral

    cleric.



    The cure spell works by using positive energy on a target. In most cases

    this heals hitpoints, but in the case of undead, it will actually cause

    damage instead. This is the standard effect of the cure spell and it works

    by "inflicting" positive energy.



    From the SRD description of INCORPOREALITY:

    "Incorporeal creatures can only be harmed by other incorporeal creatures, by

    +1 or better weapons, or by spells, spell-like effects, or supernatural

    effects. They are immune to all nonmagical attack forms. They are not burned

    by normal fires, affected by natural cold, or harmed by mundane acids."



    From the SRD description of the SHADOW monster:

    "Incorporeal: Can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, +1 or

    better magic weapons, or magic, with a 50% chance to ignore any damage from

    a corporeal source. Can pass through solid objects at will, and own attacks

    pass through armor. Always moves silently."



    Thus, as you can see, more than simply `force effects` like Magic Missile

    are capable of hurting the thing. Not only will your `cure spell` work

    effectively against the monster, but all magic spells will. Only attacks

    with mundane weapons or non-magical energy will suffer that 50% mischance,

    hence the relatively low challenge rating.



    As far as I know, Xeres is incorrect regarding that incorperal creatures can

    only be hurt by silver weapons and that silver weapons are considered holy.

    Both are false in D&D 3e rules. (I have not yet read v3.5)



    And finally, because I quoted it above, I feel I should respond to Kenneth`s

    post. Yes, positive energy is used to combat undead, but that doesn`t mean

    that positive energy can automatically get past defensive abilities and such

    "just because". The situation doesn`t apply with Incorpereal, but if the

    undead had magic resistance, it would be protected from positive energy

    attacks just as well as other magic spells. (Though I personally wouldn`t

    mind a house rule or a feat saying otherwise.) And as for "knowing no other

    characteristic," well... the positive energy did come from a "cure" spell.

    That *is* the other characteristic of positive energy.



    Hoped I helped a little.



    -Lord Rahvin
    NOTE: Messages posted by Birthright-L are automatically inserted posts originating from the mailing list linked to the forum.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    BR mailing list
    Posts
    1,562
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    ee, more than simply `force effects` like Magic Missile

    > are capable of hurting the thing. Not only will your `cure spell` work

    > effectively against the monster, but all magic spells will. Only attacks

    > with mundane weapons or non-magical energy will suffer that 50% mischance,

    > hence the relatively low challenge rating.





    My answer was incomplete here. I apologize.

    I forgot to address one important issue: "Cure" spells are touch spells.

    I`m not sure whether you can use a "touch spell" against an incorperal

    target. I believe the answer was yes, you can, but I will find you an exact

    rules quote later. I`m tired; it`s 3am. The lines on my screen are all

    blurry.



    For the sake of thoroughness I also want to remind you that the Shadow gets

    a Will save for half damage once you hit him with the "cure" spell.



    -Lord Rahvin
    NOTE: Messages posted by Birthright-L are automatically inserted posts originating from the mailing list linked to the forum.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Germany near Frankfurt
    Posts
    295
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Only the DMG will give the answer.

    Take a look under "Incorpereality". There it is clearly stated, that ANY corporeal source - magic and physical - has a 50% miss chance.

    Exeptions are "force" effects like mage armor, bracers, magic missile. (DMG p. 78)

    Turning Undead is a "Channeling" Ability (Defenders of Faith p 16), where positive energy is used.

    As a result the "Cure Spell" has a 50% miss chance since it is only a spell (which uses positive energy).
    my purpose is now to lead you into the Pallace where you shall have a clear and delightful view of all those various objects, and scattered excellencies, that lye up and down upon the face of creation, which are only seen by those that go down into the Seas, and by no other....

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    BR mailing list
    Posts
    1,562
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    someone to give a straight rules-answer, yes or no, but

    > no

    > one has for some reason. So I will, if no one minds. To my

    > understanding,

    > this was a simple question on how the 3e rules work. I`ll try to be as

    > detailed and clear as I can in my answer.



    Ackk.

    I got this all wrong. That`s what I get for posting too hastily... and

    without any sleep or caffeine.



    I`m truly sorry about my previous posts on this subject: they`re all wrong.



    Revised analysis is as follows:



    * Yes, the Shadow would get a 50% chance of being immune to your "cure"

    spell.

    * Yes, Kenneth is probably right in that it would make a lot more sense for

    them to be vulnerable to Positive Energy instead of Force spells. Since

    when is 3e about making sense?

    * Yes, touch spells can hurt incorpereal targets and don`t necessarily

    involve "touching" the opponent at all.

    * No, silver weapons still aren`t holy nor can they bypass

    incorperalability. I don`t know where that came from.



    Truly, very sorry.

    So embarrassing.



    -Lord Rahvin
    NOTE: Messages posted by Birthright-L are automatically inserted posts originating from the mailing list linked to the forum.

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    94
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Just to muck the water a little.

    If the character missed the creature do to the 50%, or just missed the roll, it is not wasted.

    The character can hold the spell and try again next time, as long as you do not cast another spell. They only discharge on use, not attempt.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
BIRTHRIGHT, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, D&D, the BIRTHRIGHT logo, and the D&D logo are trademarks owned by Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and are used by permission. ©2002-2010 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.