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  1. #1
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    In the final descriptive words on each race, an indication is givenof their
    technological status. These descriptions needs rewriting. The language is
    terrible, and the various cultural levels referenced do not mesh with how
    those are described in the DMG.

    In the DMG, blackpowder weapons are described as Rainessance Weapons. Going
    by the race descriptions from the new document, Ainureans, Brechts and
    Khinansi would all have those, while the dwarfs would be moving on towards
    even more efficient guns.

    IMC, I have included some early guns - used by Ainureans and Khinansi in
    siege and on Galleons, and mastered by the Brechts ontheir roundships. But
    that is not Birthright canon, and the race descriptions should match BR
    canon.

    I think more accurate descriptions of the technological level would be:

    Ainureans: Late middle age (plate armor)
    Rjurik: Middle Age (Full chainmail)
    Vos: Dark Ages
    Khinansi: Late middle age - with a not that they follow a somewhat different
    line of development (no plate mail)
    Brecht - Early rainessance (possibly with early cannon on their ships -
    check those fire values)
    Dwarf - Late middle age (while skilled, their technolofy is not very
    progressive)
    Elf - Late Medieval (The elven knights on the war cards actually wear plate
    mail)

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  2. #2
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    Historically, with some of the other inventions considered appropriate for the Birthright setting, gunpowder should be invented. It's generally considered to be unappropriate for medieval settings because gunpowder revolutionized warfare. The armored knight became worthless on the battle field.

    Mike Spehar

  3. #3
    Senior Member ryancaveney's Avatar
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    On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Carl Cramér wrote:

    > In the final descriptive words on each race, an indication is givenof their
    > technological status. These descriptions needs rewriting. The language is
    > terrible, and the various cultural levels referenced do not mesh with how
    > those are described in the DMG.

    Hear, hear! I vote for changing them as Carl suggests.


    Ryan Caveney

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  4. #4
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    Ryan B. Caveney wrote:

    >On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Carl Cramér wrote:
    >
    >In the final descriptive words on each race, an indication is givenof their
    >technological status. These descriptions needs rewriting. The language is
    >terrible, and the various cultural levels referenced do not mesh with how
    >those are described in the DMG.
    >
    >
    >Hear, hear! I vote for changing them as Carl suggests.
    >Ryan Caveney
    >
    But what does he suggest?
    I hope he does not mean that there must be gunpowder, because some races
    have renaisance technology and the DMG lists firearms under this
    technology?
    bye
    Michael Romes

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  5. #5
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    From: "Michael Romes" <Archmage@T-ONLINE.DE>
    > But what does he suggest?
    > I hope he does not mean that there must be gunpowder, because some races
    > have renaissance technology and the DMG lists firearms under this
    > technology?
    >

    Sorry if I was unclear. What I suggested was that we harmonize the terms
    used for various stages of cultural development with those used in the DMG.
    In the DMG, primitive firearms are labeled renaissance weapons. I won`t
    argue if this is correct or not, but it is the term used in the game. Thus,
    we should not lable Birthright cultures "renaissance" unless we want them to
    have firearms.

    Now, the issue of guns or not is an entirely separate can of worms.
    Personally, I think we should include some firearms (cannon), but not
    handguns. But I realize this is the minority opinion, and that the majority
    here does not think guns of any kind fit the setting. Thus, I advocate that
    we use terms like "late medieval" when describing the cultural levels of
    Cerilia to state clearly what the default setting does not include guns.

    /Carl





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  6. #6
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    Stephen Starfox wrote:

    > From: "Michael Romes" <Archmage@T-ONLINE.DE>
    >
    >Sorry if I was unclear. What I suggested was that we harmonize the terms
    >used for various stages of cultural development with those used in the DMG.
    >In the DMG, primitive firearms are labeled renaissance weapons. I won`t
    >argue if this is correct or not, but it is the term used in the game. Thus,
    >we should not lable Birthright cultures "renaissance" unless we want them to
    >have firearms.
    >Now, the issue of guns or not is an entirely separate can of worms.
    >Personally, I think we should include some firearms (cannon), but not
    >handguns. But I realize this is the minority opinion, and that the majority
    >here does not think guns of any kind fit the setting. Thus, I advocate that
    >we use terms like "late medieval" when describing the cultural levels of
    >Cerilia to state clearly what the default setting does not include guns.
    >
    Having the "equivalent" of Renaisance technology does not mean that
    Anuire or Brechtür have the same technology as earth in the renaisance.
    Technology is a vast field with lots of inventions and knowledge which
    is not necessarily equal everywhere (as in the availiability of
    equipment table).

    Perhaps Anuire will never have Rapiers as the noble and warriors there
    prefer the sword as Haelyns weapon?
    Perhaps gunpowder had never been invented, as -even in a rare magic
    setting- enough Wizards/Magician/Sorceors/Magicians/Clerics were able to
    call lightning from heaven or balls of fire from their hands?
    Perhaps it already HAS been invented but the church of Haelyn has burned
    the inventor at the stake as heretic perverting the divine laws of
    Haelyn with his unholy powder from hell and hidden the secret in the
    deepest catacombs below the cathedral in Anuire...
    bye
    Michael Romes

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  7. #7
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    From: "Michael Romes" <Archmage@T-ONLINE.DE>

    > Having the "equivalent" of Renaisance technology does not mean that
    > Anuire or Brechtür have the same technology as earth in the renaisance.
    > Technology is a vast field with lots of inventions and knowledge which
    > is not necessarily equal everywhere (as in the availiability of
    > equipment table).
    >

    The problem is the terminology. I agree that manythings Cerillian have a
    renessance feel, bit in the DMG, renessance is defined as an era of
    gunpowder. In fact, this is the defining characterisitc of renessance in the
    DMG. Thus, calling Anuire a renessance culture implies they have firearms.
    It`s better to call them a late middle age culture, then explain the ways in
    which they differ from this standard.

    Of course, we could implement limited gunpowder weapons in Anuire (siege
    guns) - the setting makes more sense with these guns than without them. But
    I`m afraind that this is still the minority opinion. However, if we do not,
    we should stick to the definitions of renessance established in the DMG -
    and that includes gunpowder. Thus, mainstream Cerilia is not renessance as
    renessance is defined in DnD.


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