Other continents?

[AndrewTall]

Well, certainly possible, and you already mentioned a few things in your write-up, but I thought that here it'd be useful to elaborate the history a bit.

I'll do it when I'm happy with the cultures etc - it will definitely need something to explain the Anuirean influence as the continent must be a reasonable distance away - which makes it hard for mass migration.

Seriously though, I can't claim to be an expert on Indian history, but I did a quick check of the unofficial dragon magazine index at http://www.aeolia.net/dragondex/index.html and Dragon 189, 225, 226 and 229 had articles on India, dealing with weapons and armour, classes and kits and spells and magic items, so maybe you could start there.

Hmm, just have to find and dig them out :-)

Hmm, anyone got any other suggestions for interesting cultures that could potentially border a medieval japan-clone?

I need a bit of legal clarification

I tend to err on the side of caution. I'd be after the fluff in the early chapters on culture and suchlike rather than the crunch in the book but I don't know if that's OGL or not - in any event I'd probably leave that until later.

[geeman]

At 02:27 PM 9/27/2007, AndrewTall wrote:

>Hmm, anyone got any other suggestions for interesting cultures that
>could potentially border a medieval japan-clone?

When I did an Oriental Adventures BR campaign (on a continent called
Shanjari) the races used were:

The Abdani. (Manchurian/Mongol.) Wild horsemen of steppe and plain,
the Abdano are fierce warriors.

Orisuni. (Japanese/Korean.) Of a long and proud warrior tradition,
the Orisuni are a people of many traditions and culture.

Vedic. (East India.) Faith and worship define most of the
Vedic. Vedic society has a strong caste system, and being born into
a particular caste determines one`s role in society.

Pandano. (Phillipines/Polynesia.) Not a people so much as a
geographical location, the Pandano live in the Pandano Island chain
to the West of the Shanjari mainland. These islands are rich in
spices, fruits and many valuable commodities, and have been fought
over for centuries. The Pandano are a polygot of cultures, mixed in
with many pervasive island influences.

Zhani. (Persia/West India.) The Zhani Empire was once the dominant
political body in Shanjari, but after centuries of rule it has
collapsed until it is now but a remnant of its former glory. The
Zhani culture, however, was spread throughout the land and dominates
many modern nations.

Ko. (Mandarin China/Thailand.) The Ko are an ancient and civilized
people whose culture dominates the Eastern half of
Shanjari. Separated from the rest of Shanjari by the Likun Desert
and the Mali mountains, the Ko are the most insular human race of Shanjari.

Gary

[Beruin]

Are all of these human cultures? Did you include non-human races? Which and what were they like?

[geeman]

At 05:34 PM 9/27/2007, Beruin wrote:

>Are all of these human cultures? Did you include non-human races?
>Which and what were they like?

Those are all human. I used the non-human races standard to the OA
campaign with a few BR changes. That is, OA dwarves (Korobokuru)
were more like BR dwarves. I imagined a few other non-human races,
but the campaign didn`t really get that far, I`m afraid, so even the
standard OA non-human races didn`t really show up.

Gary

[AndrewTall]

When I did an Oriental Adventures BR campaign (on a continent called
Shanjari) the races used were:

The Abdani. (Manchurian/Mongol.) Wild horsemen of steppe and plain,
the Abdano are fierce warriors.

Orisuni. (Japanese/Korean.) Of a long and proud warrior tradition,
the Orisuni are a people of many traditions and culture.

Vedic. (East India.) Faith and worship define most of the
Vedic...

Pandano. (Phillipines/Polynesia.) Not a people so much as a
geographical location...

Zhani. (Persia/West India.)

Ko. (Mandarin China/Thailand.)Gary

Hmm, mongols sound interesting - and could easily overlay another culture. My understanding of polynesia is pretty basic beyond 'b' movie stuff but a mix of 'simple islanders in a tropical paradise' and 'savages with machete's' with a mix between should be do-able. Persia again sounds interesting - my downside is that the khinasi and basarji pretty much cover a lot of that - and I'm not sure how popular the culture actually is - I wouldn't want to overdose a game.

My worry with Chinese and Korean cultures was the risk of them blending into the Japanese culture for either the DM, or (more likely) players - the same sort of issue in separating the English from Scots/Irish/the French that some Asians I meet have.

So restrict the Egyptians to the coast and a few big rivers to represent Masetian sailors, replace the tribes as they stand by an Indian/Persian culture (albeit with a lower martial focus to permit domination) led by a mix of lizardmen/awnies say with some realms free, others dominated by oppressive human regimes that could be begrudged ally/foe. Have Mongol raiders away from the centre to give some 'neutral' realms. Interject with some re-shaped dwarves, elves and crazed awnies to break it up a bit...

Add some Polnesians on neighbouring islands - probably away from the Masetian areas and that gives a fair mix. Not sure if I still need the Anuireans, but they add a familiar reference point and Anuire is a very popular nation for game-play due to familiarity with the culture.

[Gheal]

Some proposals on polynesians and China/Japan distinction.
Polynesians (as many primitive cultures) must have more spellcasting shamans (as per OA or rangers), than any civilized culture. Much less time is spent on life-supporting work, all the people are sure - rituals are needed and they are worthy ritualists. So anyone, who can be conduit for divine energies of local nature spirits, become shamans. Second thought about polynesians - they have their proa. These ships are not much seaworthy, albeit still better, than small boats, but they are fastest sailing ships in the world. So short-range sea communications are as easy, as by land. IIRC, european koggs have speed under sails in the range 3-5 knots, early fluits about 6-8 knots, 18-19 c. frigates 8-12 kts, drakkars up to 10 kts under sails and up to 12 kts with the oars too. Proa can attain up to 12-15 knots.
Most distinct difference (IMO) between old chinese and japan cultures is balance betweeen civilian and military powers. Japan was governed and dominated by warriors (shogunate, right to test the blade, rigid near-caste system etc), so trade holdings are not so much in power (pillaged regularly by law holdings/martial law, IMO). Lack of quality administration greatly limits max. province level and thus, income. China was opposite - great administrative machine (bureaucratic, but working), but underdeveloped army ("good iron not for nails, good man not for army"). IIRC minisry of state exams still was kept even after revolution of 1919 - any people, theoretically, can rise up in law holdings and become councilor for emperor. Cultural influence (thank to the number of educated people) is second to none. But the army is great in numbers and low on morals and training. When quasi-Japan domains can have much more elite units, than any of their neighbours, quasi-China must have regulars at best.

Ah, and mongol horses... This bred is very cheap to mantain (they can eat the grass from under the snow, and they eat anything, what was their undoing in Crapathian Mnts.) and they have endurance bonus feat (know only two paces - walk and gallop, and can move up to 70-80, some sources said even about 120 kilometers per day). Their only disadvantage - low carrying capacity (usual for any regional breeds).

Hope it helps. (And hope, my English is understandable )

[AndrewTall]

Thanks for the help.

I hadn't realised Polynesian boats were that fast - suggests that holdings will be spread geographically more than I'd thought.

Also suggests that Chinese culture might be good for the 'tribes' - particularly if I add a non-militant local faith or something which preaches endurance rather than violent opposition to make conquest easier and more enduring.

You can then have awnies, lizardmen etc controlling some of the Chinese realms for the main enemies - they can't take over the samurai lands (too well guarded) so I don't need a honking great wall or chasm/etc, and the Chinese can retain guilds holdings etc to keep some power while the orogs just dominate the law and pillage down if the natives get too restless...

[kgauck]

Primitive people have less stuff, and their boats can be designed only to move people. Civilized people have stuff, and they want to take their stuff with them and sometimes carry off someone else's stuff. So boats are designed to carry stuff. Most stuff is not very sea-worthy, and so the boat must be, which makes it slow.

Polynesians are austronesian speakers, once dwelling in what is today south China, pushed out as the people of the Yellow River domesticated millet and wheat, and expanded south (where they also domesticated rice). The speakers of austronesian languages were pushed first to the island of Formosa, and then they expanded to the islands to their south, the Philippines and then Indonesia. From there the austronesians expanded to Madagascar off the coast of Africa, and across the Pacific to Hawaii and Easter Island.

So the range of austronesian speakers is from Madagascar to Hawaii. Half the globe? Nearly a fifth of the planet speak an austronesian language, many of them Javanese.

[Beruin]

So restrict the Egyptians to the coast and a few big rivers to represent Masetian sailors, replace the tribes as they stand by an Indian/Persian culture (albeit with a lower martial focus to permit domination) led by a mix of lizardmen/awnies say with some realms free, others dominated by oppressive human regimes that could be begrudged ally/foe. Have Mongol raiders away from the centre to give some 'neutral' realms. Interject with some re-shaped dwarves, elves and crazed awnies to break it up a bit...

Add some Polnesians on neighbouring islands - probably away from the Masetian areas and that gives a fair mix.

All in all, looks like an interesting setting you're developing there. I hope you keep us informed on the progress.
You should give some thought to the geography/climate of the continent, to keep the mix of cultures believable. Egypt for instance is in my view strongly characterized by its relative isolation, at least for most of the Old and Middle Kingdoms, i.e. it has deserts to the east and west and the sea in the north. If you go with deserts, the Mongol steppes might be adjacent to them, and the Mongol culture might blend over into the desert, using (Bactrian) camels instead of horses.

Regarding non-human cultures, I really like the idea of an Indian culture where the highest caste(s) are reserved for, say, lizardmen. I also thought of the Sovereign Stone setting, where the elves are Japan, the dwarves are the Mongols and the orcs are the seafaring culture (Polynesian goblins?). I'm not sure I like this approach, it seems a tad too obvious, at least if a real world culture is transferred one-to-one to a fantasy race, but it's a possibility for given standard fantasy races a more exotic flair.

Polynesian goblins Yeah, I like this...