Chap 2 Revision

[Osprey]

Err... I forgot to add a note on my earlier Long Life suggestion: the values I gave worked on a "per level" basis, just like the Slow Aging class feature of channelers in the Wheel of Time. I will repost here, with errata:

Long Life
You age less rapidly.
Minor: You age 1 year only for every 2 years per level.
Major: You age 1 year only for every 5 years per level.
Great: You age 1 year only for every 10 years per level.

For example, a 20th level scion with the minor Long Life blood ability would age 1 year in 40 years, while a 1st level scion with the great Long Life blood ability would age 1 year in 10 years; however, if the second scion was also of 20th level, he would age that one year in 200 years!

That's a pretty clever system, and quite appropriate...for channelers of the One Power. But BR bloodline powers shouldn't generally be level-based if we are to keep consistent. However, if level were to be replaced with Bloodline score modifier, it might translate rather nicely. Just a suggestion, Rasp.

-Osprey

[Osprey]

Originally posted by The Jew@Mar 6 2004, 10:57 PM
The realm spell bloodline investure is the reason the great bloodlines have not died out. To quote the BRCS "A bloodline investure transfers the donating scion's entire bloodline, including strength, derivation and score to the designated recipient...If the target character is already a scion then the bloodlines are combined in exactly the same manner as if the character with the stronger bloodline performed bloodtheft on the character with the weaker bloodline." Now of course their are a variety of reasons a regent may not live to have this spell used, which would account for the number of great bloodlines decreasing.

I've always imagined that the use of the realm spell, which robs a regent/scion of his/her bloodline entirely, should work differently than pacifistic bloodtheft (bloodtheft without actually killing the victim). I would expect that a regent who passed his bloodline on to his heir could give his heir the full benefit of it. So if Hierl Diem raised his Bloodline to 56, and was ready to pass it on to Lasisca (42) before he died, that Lasisca would gain a Bloodline score of 56 rather than the measly few points she would get through the Bloodtheft rules. This would allow regents to give their heirs the full benefit of a bloodline forged through a successful reign, rather than a slight "boost" for such a great loss.

Now is this just wishful thinking on my part, or did such a mechanic exist somewhere to this effect? I feel like I got this idea from somewhere, perhaps in the 2e materials?

[Don E]

Originally posted by Osprey@Mar 7 2004, 01:58 PM
I've always imagined that the use of the realm spell, which robs a regent/scion of his/her bloodline entirely, should work differently than pacifistic bloodtheft (bloodtheft without actually killing the victim). I would expect that a regent who passed his bloodline on to his heir could give his heir the full benefit of it. So if Hierl Diem raised his Bloodline to 56, and was ready to pass it on to Lasisca (42) before he died, that Lasisca would gain a Bloodline score of 56 rather than the measly few points she would get through the Bloodtheft rules. This would allow regents to give their heirs the full benefit of a bloodline forged through a successful reign, rather than a slight "boost" for such a great loss.

Now is this just wishful thinking on my part, or did such a mechanic exist somewhere to this effect? I feel like I got this idea from somewhere, perhaps in the 2e materials?

I believe this has for some unknown reason been changed from 2e to the BRCS. In the BoP it states that a ceremony of Bloodline Investiture can be used to elevate a ruler's heir to the same blood strength that the ruler himself enjoys.

Based on this I would say that you are indeed right. My interpretation would be that if your bloodline is stronger than the donor you only receive an increase as for a bloofteft. If your bloodline is weaker you gain the full bloodline. Another way of looking at this is to assume there is some actual benefit of performing a blood investiture instead of simply performing bloodteft on the victim.

Cheers,
Don E

[RaspK_FOG]

Originally posted by Osprey@Mar 7 2004, 03:50 PM

Err... I forgot to add a note on my earlier Long Life suggestion: the values I gave worked on a "per level" basis, just like the Slow Aging class feature of channelers in the Wheel of Time. I will repost here, with errata:

Long Life
You age less rapidly.
Minor: You age 1 year only for every 2 years per level.
Major: You age 1 year only for every 5 years per level.
Great: You age 1 year only for every 10 years per level.

For example, a 20th level scion with the minor Long Life blood ability would age 1 year in 40 years, while a 1st level scion with the great Long Life blood ability would age 1 year in 10 years; however, if the second scion was also of 20th level, he would age that one year in 200 years!

That's a pretty clever system, and quite appropriate...for channelers of the One Power. But BR bloodline powers shouldn't generally be level-based if we are to keep consistent. However, if level were to be replaced with Bloodline score modifier, it might translate rather nicely. Just a suggestion, Rasp.

-Osprey

:lol: That was one funny remark there!

I will think this over, but it looks you hit the nail too squarely for me to judge it any... As it is, I still have to ask you one thing: how do you think I should go with Bloodline scores? Should I work like the margines of the various strengths (1 to 20, 21 to..., and so on?), or do you have something else in mind?

[Osprey]

Rasp,
The revised Ch. 2 Bloodline Score tables have modifiers which are pretty similar to their BRCS equivalents, only slightly higher. That's what i was referring to. In the new tables, a Bloodline score of 30 has a +3 modifier, so a scion with this score and Long Life (Major) would age 1 year per 15 that passed, using your system as a base. Clear?

Ideggman, a question: Is there any particular reason why the Bloodline Modifiers in revised Ch. 2 are almost the same as the BRCS, but slightly higher? I was curious about that, as it makes for a slightly skewed conversion between the 2 systems. Not a big deal, just seemed a liitle odd.

-Osprey

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by Osprey@Mar 8 2004, 12:10 AM
Rasp,
The revised Ch. 2 Bloodline Score tables have modifiers which are pretty similar to their BRCS equivalents, only slightly higher. That's what i was referring to. In the new tables, a Bloodline score of 30 has a +3 modifier, so a scion with this score and Long Life (Major) would age 1 year per 15 that passed, using your system as a base. Clear?

Ideggman, a question: Is there any particular reason why the Bloodline Modifiers in revised Ch. 2 are almost the same as the BRCS, but slightly higher? I was curious about that, as it makes for a slightly skewed conversion between the 2 systems. Not a big deal, just seemed a liitle odd.

-Osprey

Yes,
Based on a 'conversion' of the 2nd ed tables, the blood abilities start to come into play routinely at a blood score of 20 (0-100 range). In the BRCS-playtest they came in at around an equivalent 0-100 score range of 24. Making this adjustment moved things so that the modifiers and abilities started to come in at a lower range, but translates truer to the original material than did the BRCS-playtest.

[RaspK_FOG]

Osprey, I have read the Revised 2nd Chapter; let this insolent fool of a poster admit that his improficiency allowed him to make even more a fool of himself... In other words, I can be such a moron sometimes!

[Osprey]

Irdeggman,
Before voting, I have one question concerning the addition of prerequisites for all of the blood abilities: Am I right in interpreting this to mean that if my character takes Divine Aura (Great), I also have to already possess Divine Aura (Major)? If this is true, it will seriously reduce the number of blood abilities possessed by major and great scions. Also, it seems to encourage scions to go for the abilities that don't have lesser ability prerequisites, as they end up with fewer usable abilities.

Or does this mean that when I take Divine Aura (Great), I must first have the Major version, but when I take the Great version it replaces the lesser (major) version and I may now choose a different major version in its place?

Either way, I would very much appreciate some kind of text better explaining the prerequisites in the chapter, as I looked several times and could find no answer within the existing text. Not to mention this is a brand new addition to the rules with no real precedent. Is this addition for the sake of making it in-line with other 3.5 systems or what? It certainly seems a dramatic change to any previous systems.

Osprey

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by Osprey@Mar 12 2004, 07:24 PM
Irdeggman,
Before voting, I have one question concerning the addition of prerequisites for all of the blood abilities: Am I right in interpreting this to mean that if my character takes Divine Aura (Great), I also have to already possess Divine Aura (Major)? If this is true, it will seriously reduce the number of blood abilities possessed by major and great scions. Also, it seems to encourage scions to go for the abilities that don't have lesser ability prerequisites, as they end up with fewer usable abilities.

Or does this mean that when I take Divine Aura (Great), I must first have the Major version, but when I take the Great version it replaces the lesser (major) version and I may now choose a different major version in its place?

Either way, I would very much appreciate some kind of text better explaining the prerequisites in the chapter, as I looked several times and could find no answer within the existing text. Not to mention this is a brand new addition to the rules with no real precedent. Is this addition for the sake of making it in-line with other 3.5 systems or what? It certainly seems a dramatic change to any previous systems.

Osprey

This is the text that is applicable: (from pg 11)



"Blood abilities
Scions of divine bloodlines may possess unusual talents or powers associated with their line. These powers are known as blood abilities. Bloodline abilities have three designated strengths (minor, major, or great) and are associated with one or more derivations. The number and strength of the blood abilities that a character possesses is determined by the character's bloodline traits (see Table 2-3: Bloodline Score). Bloodline abilities should be chosen from the derivation specific tables, below. Any blood abilities of the appropriate strengths and derivations may be selected, as long as any designated prerequisites are met. A player may choose an ability of lesser strength than they are entitled to, at their preference. For example, if the scion is entitled to have one minor, one major and one great ability he can choose to have all minors, two minors and a great, one minor and two majors, etc. The tables also provide numbers for the convenience of DMs using the random bloodline traits variant.

For most characters, bloodline abilities generally first manifest at puberty and remain constant throughout their life. Blood abilities, however, may be gained or lost as a character's bloodline score changes during play. If a character’s score increases to the point where a new ability is gained, then select an ability of the appropriate level from the tables below. If the character already possesses the ability at a lower level of strength, then an ability of the appropriate strength should be selected to replace the lower ability as well. The character should always end up with the appropriate number of Great, Major, and Minor abilities as indicated on Table 2-2: Bloodline Score. "



Unless it is specifically addressed as a prerequisite then having a minor prior to taking a major version of the blood ability or major then taking a great it is not a requirement. All prerequisites are specified. The only thing that must be met prior to taking a major or great ability is the appropriate blod score and the appropriate number of scion class levels. Any required prequisites are listed under the description of the blood ability itself, for example for major regeneration the following is in the specific text for the ability "*This ability is available only to those blooded scions that already possess natural regeneration (usually through the Regeneration blood ability).". This pattern is similarly followed for any abilities that have prequisites.


I added the following text under scion classes:

"In order to obtain major level blood abilities a scion must have a level of the applicable scion class. In order to obtain great blood abilities a scion must have two levels of the appropriate scion class."

I hope that helps, if not I'm at a loss for how much clearer it could be written.

If using the feat-like approach variant the prerequisite table listed there applies, but table 2-5 only applies to that variant, which is why the table is specifically called out under that variant alone.

The prequisites were in the BRCS-playtest version and really haven't been changed, except that instead of a template they are now scion class levels.

[Osprey]

If using the feat-like approach variant the prerequisite table listed there applies, but table 2-5 only applies to that variant, which is why the table is specifically called out under that variant alone.

Ahh...therein lies the rub! I didn't realize that table was only for the feat variant. Problem solved...thanks!