this time only dwarves please!!

[marcum uth mather]

record down any thoughts or ideas or personel insites on dwarves in BR. I am playing a soon to be Dwarven part of the adventure, and hoping to start a new dwarven Kingdom. Insites needed! P.S. please stay on topic;)

[Krow]

Thanks Marcum for posting this under its own thread this time instead of the "2e vs. 3e battle/intelligence and testing thereof" thread. :)

I am also curious where I can get ahold of TSR made maps of Baruk-Azhik.

[Peter Lubke]

On Wed, 2002-11-20 at 16:25, marcum uth mather wrote:

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marcum uth mather wrote:
record down any thoughts or ideas or personel insites on dwarves in BR. I am playing a soon to be Dwarven part of the adventure, and hoping to start a new dwarven Kingdom. Insites needed! P.S. please stay on topic;)

Start the DFDU (Dwarves For Dwarven Unity). Each dwarf realm has it`s
own problems and they currently face them singly. But there really
aren`t enough dwarves left in the world to be quite so insular. In fact
those dwarves that deal with humanity more openly are in the best
position to begin true dwarven leadership.

Baruk-Azhik is currently in a state of deep emnity with the dwarves of
Mur-Kilad.
Khurin-Azur remains neutrally friendly toward both rather than take a
side.
All three realms are in or near to the Gorgons sphere of influence. All
have some interaction with Anuirean or Brecht realms or both.
Baruk-Azhik profits most from interaction with humans.

To the east, Daikhar-Zhigun also fares well in dealings with the
Brechts, but less so with it`s Rjurik and Vos neighbors. Kheleb-Izhil`s
withdrawal (and whereabouts) is an unknown.

A change of attitude from Kheleb-Izhil or Khurin-Azur would seem to be
the most acceptable political leadership for a united (or at least
allied) dwarven empire. Somewhere along the way, the leadership of
Mur-Kilad has to be replaced and this isn`t likely to sit well with the
big G. Therefore, powerful allies are also important. Dwarves will never
be a dominant force in Cerilia, but could if united become a significant
influence.

And then there`s the search for lost kindred. (good adventuring
opportunities here)

The location of Kheleb-Izhil has (to my knowledge) never been revealed.
Careful examination of dwarven sites however reveals an interesting (but
unsurprising) common factor. They all like to be near large bodies of
preferably fresh water. Given a mining and smelting background it is
easy to see why this would be so. Dwarven realms often have common
borders or close proximity to elven realms - possibly indicating some
much earlier cooperative relationship between the elder races. As well,
so far they have remained undetected by humans for nearly 1200 years -
so they must be in what is now fairly isolated and unsettled areas. The
main contenders for the location of the hidden dwarven realm emerge. (in
my order of probability)

(i) Ber Djin/Khourane a 0/9 province of the Rain Serpent Mountains on
the western end of Lake Ibnoume. In better times this is also on the
most direct route from Min Dhousai to Djafra. Perhaps with part of Djin
Belim as well. This also close to eastern Rhuannach.
(ii) Ras Nabal/Maze of Maalvar on the border with Pipryet/Fammena/the
Magian. This province is 0/9 also and contains a large lake. It`s
proximity to the trading route from Pipryet to Moura in Khourane (if
completed - it may once have been so) would also position it in a good
trading position. It`s also in a historically accurate area - early
Khinasi expansion - which has fallen into a backwater.
(iii) Ras Dheiredin/min Dhousai - I think this one is too close to
Khinasi civilization to go unnoticed - still sometimes you can miss the
bleeding obvious (but for 1200 years?). Iron Gap as a second province? -
close to eastern Rhuannach, water, elves, trade.
(iv) Cleftrock and/or Hellforge (occupied by the Iron Hand). Well, I`d
expect no small objection and distinct action even from a reclusive mob
of dwarves if they were here. Of course, they may have retreated very
deep underground. I think this is a long odds chance. (of course they
may well have been wiped out by same - you could find empty halls filled
with ghosts and ruins - Moria-like)

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[Birthright-L]

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Peter Lubke wrote:
> The location of Kheleb-Izhil has (to my knowledge) never been revealed.
> Careful examination of dwarven sites however reveals an interesting (but
> unsurprising) common factor. They all like to be near large bodies of
> preferably fresh water. Given a mining and smelting background it is
> easy to see why this would be so. Dwarven realms often have common
> borders or close proximity to elven realms - possibly indicating some
> much earlier cooperative relationship between the elder races. As well,
> so far they have remained undetected by humans for nearly 1200 years -
> so they must be in what is now fairly isolated and unsettled areas. The
> main contenders for the location of the hidden dwarven realm emerge. (in
> my order of probability)
>
> (i) Ber Djin/Khourane a 0/9 province of the Rain Serpent Mountains on
> the western end of Lake Ibnoume. In better times this is also on the
> most direct route from Min Dhousai to Djafra. Perhaps with part of Djin
> Belim as well. This also close to eastern Rhuannach.

I think you were closest with this one. In Cities of the Sun, they hint
that Kheleb-Izhil was underneath the mountains in Rhuannach, so I pegged
it as Allaight, Rhuannach, the easternmost province of that realm I think.
--
Communication is possible only between equals.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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[Lawgiver]

Originally posted by Birthright-L


On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Peter Lubke wrote:> (i) Ber Djin/Khourane a 0/9 province of the Rain Serpent Mountains on
> the western end of Lake Ibnoume. In better times this is also on the
> most direct route from Min Dhousai to Djafra. Perhaps with part of Djin
> Belim as well. This also close to eastern Rhuannach.

I think you were closest with this one. In Cities of the Sun, they hint
that Kheleb-Izhil was underneath the mountains in Rhuannach, so I pegged
it as Allaight, Rhuannach, the easternmost province of that realm I think.

I concur. This seems to be the most likely region. Though if we've just figured it our so easily why hasn't anyone else??? :P Or maybe they have and haven't returned to tell of it.
...Or since they are dwarves they may be "compassionate" enough to say. Whoops... you found the city. Too bad you can never leave again as long as you live.

Or "thanks for the visit you can leave at your leisure".... [Immediately after crossing the portal your memory of the city, the dwarves, or even a bard's tale of the lost city has suddenly vanished from your memory. Strangely your eyes burn and tingle as they adjust to the noon day sun... The road before you running west, seems familiar enough. Glancing behind you rises a sheer cliff at the base of Mt. [x]. The last three days of travel have been exhausting and seem to be catching up with you. Feeling dehydrated, you decide to take a break...[insert some generic memories... got lost from the trade caravan... Perhaps received "memories" of a quest for an item intentially hidden by the dwarves of Kheleb-Izhil to distract "invaders"]]

[Birthright-L]

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Lawgiver wrote:
> I concur. This seems to be the most likely region. Though if we`ve
> just figured it our so easily why hasn`t anyone else??? :P Or maybe
> they have and haven`t returned to tell of it.

I don`t think the dwarves necessarily delved too greedily and too deep,
but it`s possible they brought back something from Deismaar with them that
caused them to close their doors and die out. There might not be any
dwarves left in Kheleb-Izhil, or there might be just enough left to feed
its monstrous hunger, and that of its spawn.
--
Communication is possible only between equals.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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[Lee]

I agree with the idea of pushing dwarven unity. The hard part would be
getting the dwarves of Mur-Kilad away from the Gorgon. Perhaps if
Kheleb-Izhil could be re-opened, they could have somewhere to go?
IMC, I ran the "Axe of the dwarvish lords" module for my human party,
placing Kheleb-Izhil (named Radruundar by the goblins who moved in recently)
in the Silverhead Mountains of the Giantdowns. The module`s city has a small
lake (about 60 square miles) in a mountain valley adjacent, and it is near
the forests that used to belong to Lluabright long ago.

Lee.

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[marcum uth mather]

I like the idea of the lost dwarven civ. mabey the lost dwarves could be duragar or some othere dwarven offshoot. Also has anyone run the Mur-Kaild campain. how did they get away from the Gorgons hold?

[kgauck]

I regard the "lost" dwarven realm as being in a series of very difficult
mountains. The realm isn`t truely lost, its just the the likes of humans have
too much difficulty in the mountains to find the place reliably.

Of course the humans have the same problems navigating certain woodlands too.
Only in that case its a question of elven towns.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[kgauck]

Krow wrote:
>
> I am also curious where I can get ahold of TSR made maps of Baruk-Azhik.

I made a variety of maps of Baruk-Azhik, but they are definatly not TSR, and
tend to reflect my own development of the terrain there.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mcshi.com

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