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  1. #1
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 12:12 AM 5/4/2002 +0200, Carl Cramér wrote:

    >There is also a base cost of the action, and you have to spend an action
    >doing it. Then you have to convince people to show up, because there is
    >always the risk of treachery. All in all, I find it works fine.

    Do all regents participating in the action spend an action doing it?

    Anyway, I generally like the concept, I`m just not sure the exchange rate
    is practical in the long term, and it might be problematic in certain
    (collective rule) campaign types because it could make them significantly
    more versatile.

    Also, does it cost RP to participate in a Party action? I ask because of
    what might happen with non-regent scions. If someone can get RP from
    spending GB and it doesn`t cost RP to participate then what might happen if
    a few dozen minor nobles get involved in a Party action and create RP for
    their personal use? They could spend these RP to improve their bloodline,
    or they might be able to insure the success of various domain level
    activities despite the fact that they are not themselves regents. It would
    also give them access to more domain actions. If it costs just 1RP to
    participate this problem goes away.

    In any case, using an action that allows GB to be transferred into RP could
    have serious repercussions at several levels of play. GB could effectively
    be used to increase a character`s bloodline by spending a domain action to
    raise RP. GB are generally easier to come by at the realm level for
    certain regents (particularly guilders) and if they transfer at 1GB = 3.5RP
    then a Party action performed by The Brecht Council of Guilders, for
    example, could create quite a windfall of regency for those regents.

    Gary

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  2. #2
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    Gary <geeman@SOFTHOME.NET> wrote at 02-05-04 00.48:

    > Do all regents participating in the action spend an action doing it?
    >

    Yes, that`s the point.

    > Also, does it cost RP to participate in a Party action? I ask because of
    > what might happen with non-regent scions. If someone can get RP from
    > spending GB and it doesn`t cost RP to participate then what might happen if
    > a few dozen minor nobles get involved in a Party action and create RP for
    > their personal use? They could spend these RP to improve their bloodline,
    > or they might be able to insure the success of various domain level
    > activities despite the fact that they are not themselves regents. It would
    > also give them access to more domain actions. If it costs just 1RP to
    > participate this problem goes away.
    >

    No, only the host pays the basic cost; everyone else just contributes GB. I
    can`t find my notes now, but I beleieve basic cost was 2 GB and no RP. So,
    you are basically doing your guests a favor by inviting them. You could also
    have a certain level of court as a prerequisite.

    I also let veryone involved get to make free diplomacy actions against each
    other at this time.

    This was written to simulate Sword and Crown; it has been used for a royal
    marriage and a crowning ceremont since, but that is all.


    > In any case, using an action that allows GB to be transferred into RP could
    > have serious repercussions at several levels of play. GB could effectively
    > be used to increase a character`s bloodline by spending a domain action to
    > raise RP. GB are generally easier to come by at the realm level for
    > certain regents (particularly guilders) and if they transfer at 1GB = 3.5RP
    > then a Party action performed by The Brecht Council of Guilders, for
    > example, could create quite a windfall of regency for those regents.
    >


    Yea, every DM would have to consider if this kind of action fits in his/her
    game. One option is to allow it oly for the grandest of established feasts
    (such as Sword and Crown).

    /Carl

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  3. #3
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 09:20 AM 5/4/2002 +0200, Carl Cramér wrote:

    > > Do all regents participating in the action spend an action doing it?
    >
    >Yes, that`s the point.

    OK, I didn`t get that from anything in your original post.

    > > Also, does it cost RP to participate in a Party action? I ask because of
    > > what might happen with non-regent scions. If someone can get RP from
    > > spending GB and it doesn`t cost RP to participate then what might happen if
    > > a few dozen minor nobles get involved in a Party action and create RP for
    > > their personal use? They could spend these RP to improve their bloodline,
    > > or they might be able to insure the success of various domain level
    > > activities despite the fact that they are not themselves regents. It would
    > > also give them access to more domain actions. If it costs just 1RP to
    > > participate this problem goes away.
    >
    >No, only the host pays the basic cost; everyone else just contributes GB.
    >I can`t find my notes now, but I beleieve basic cost was 2 GB and no RP.
    >So, you are basically doing your guests a favor by inviting them. You
    >could also have a certain level of court as a prerequisite.

    Doesn`t that open up RP collection to non-regents? There are a lot of
    problems with giving RP to non-regents. In particular, I can`t see a
    reason why one would even need a bloodline to collect RP using this domain
    action at present. What happens when a character has 1RP? Can s/he spend
    it to "create" a bloodline with a BSS of 1? Non-regents are the driving
    force behind random events, and if they can get access to RP then there`s
    the possibility of bidding wars during those activities. If the Party
    action costs just 1RP, however, the realm level is still "regents only"
    since no one without a RP could participate. A regent could send a LT who
    would get RP to spend on Lieutenant actions. That wouldn`t necessarily be
    bad, but given the GB:RP exchange rate, I think it`s too easy for a LT to
    come away with enough RP to assure his actions for a year easily. Also, if
    it doesn`t cost RP to host a Party event, does a regent even have to be the
    host? Couldn`t a non-regent host a Party event, invite a dozen other
    non-regents as guests and they mutually spend GB to get RP?

    I do like the idea, though. When you find your notes I`d love to see what
    else you had on it.

    >I also let veryone involved get to make free diplomacy actions against
    >each other at this time.
    >
    >This was written to simulate Sword and Crown; it has been used for a royal
    >marriage and a crowning ceremont since, but that is all.
    >
    > > In any case, using an action that allows GB to be transferred into RP could
    > > have serious repercussions at several levels of play. GB could effectively
    > > be used to increase a character`s bloodline by spending a domain action to
    > > raise RP. GB are generally easier to come by at the realm level for
    > > certain regents (particularly guilders) and if they transfer at 1GB = 3.5RP
    > > then a Party action performed by The Brecht Council of Guilders, for
    > > example, could create quite a windfall of regency for those regents.
    >
    >Yea, every DM would have to consider if this kind of action fits in
    >his/her game. One option is to allow it oly for the grandest of
    >established feasts (such as Sword and Crown).

    Role-playing and events should drive campaigns, but often players have more
    of a say in events at the realm level, so I think a game mechanical reason
    for not having a Party action more often would make sense. The majority of
    my objections could be dealt with pretty easily by having a 1RP cost to the
    action. I still think the exchange rate is too high. I wouldn`t go higher
    than 1:1 and, in fact, I`d probably make it much more costly to get RP from
    GB. 1:3 probably. (I`ve always felt the 4:1 ratio of RP to GB in the
    Alchemy spell was a little steep, and changed it to 3:1 IMC. I was tempted
    to go 2:1 at one point, but it just never happened.)

    Gary

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  4. #4
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    Gary <geeman@SOFTHOME.NET> wrote at 02-05-04 10.35:

    > Doesn`t that open up RP collection to non-regents?

    No, only regents can participate in the Party action. What is the clory of
    gathering some commonners together and spending a lot of money.

    I don`t see a lot of commonners and lesser nobles dishing out GB on throwing
    parties, either.

    However, since guilders and people having even a single holding are regents,
    this is still a pretty big group of people who can attend.

    /Carl

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  5. #5
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 10:47 AM 5/4/2002 +0200, Carl Cramér wrote:

    > > Doesn`t that open up RP collection to non-regents?
    >
    >No, only regents can participate in the Party action. What is the clory of
    >gathering some commonners together and spending a lot of money.
    >
    >I don`t see a lot of commonners and lesser nobles dishing out GB on
    >throwing parties, either.

    A GB isn`t a lot of money in D&D terms. Why wouldn`t someone with a few
    thousand gp use them to create RP? A party of "commoner" PCs or just any
    low level regent could use the action to get dozens of RP. If there were
    six characters in the party that had the Party, each would get an average
    of 21RP (6d6) by spending 6GB or a mere 12,000gp apiece (plus the
    2GB/4,000gp cost to the host.)

    Gary

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  6. #6
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    Well, my GB is 10,000 gp. You`ll have to adapt the figures to your own
    game.

    /carl

    Gary <geeman@SOFTHOME.NET> wrote at 02-05-04 11.42:

    > At 10:47 AM 5/4/2002 +0200, Carl Cramér wrote:
    >
    >>> Doesn`t that open up RP collection to non-regents?
    >>
    >> No, only regents can participate in the Party action. What is the clory of
    >> gathering some commonners together and spending a lot of money.
    >>
    >> I don`t see a lot of commonners and lesser nobles dishing out GB on
    >> throwing parties, either.
    >
    > A GB isn`t a lot of money in D&D terms. Why wouldn`t someone with a few
    > thousand gp use them to create RP? A party of "commoner" PCs or just any
    > low level regent could use the action to get dozens of RP. If there were
    > six characters in the party that had the Party, each would get an average
    > of 21RP (6d6) by spending 6GB or a mere 12,000gp apiece (plus the
    > 2GB/4,000gp cost to the host.)
    >
    > Gary
    >
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  7. #7
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 01:10 PM 5/4/2002 +0200, Carl Cramér wrote:

    >Well, my GB is 10,000 gp. You`ll have to adapt the figures to your own game.

    Ah, that does help quite a bit. Very few non-nobles are going to be
    running around with 20-80k gp to spend. I still think a 1RP cost for
    participating in a Party action (I`m thinking of calling it a Moot, Grand
    Moot or something like that IMC) would solve any issues regarding who can
    participate without having to resort to DM fiat or jumping through too many
    hoops in interpreting the action.

    Also, I`m thinking that participants should all get the equivalent of a
    free Diplomacy action (maybe with a higher than normal DC since it
    shouldn`t be quite the same thing as the full court press of the regular
    Diplomacy action and they can`t spend RP to improve their chance of
    success) per your previous post, but the host of the party (moot, high
    council, whatever) should get as many as three, or maybe he gets both a
    free Diplomacy and a free Espionage as well (both with the same boost to DC
    compared to the standard action.) There should be some benefit to being
    the host of the thing, but it shouldn`t be so great that A) other regents
    refuse to participate since they don`t want to aid the hosting regent`s
    action, and B) his slightly increased GB/RP costs don`t give him a
    substantially greater benefit.

    Gary

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  8. #8
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Carl Cramér" <carl.cramer@HOME.SE>
    Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 3:47 AM


    > I don`t see a lot of commonners and lesser nobles dishing out GB on
    throwing
    > parties, either.

    I remind you of the debutante`s ball. Take a (female) scion, you want to
    send her out into the world as a potential regent, so you throw a party for
    a daughter or niece (or granddaughter, grand niece) in which she collects
    regency from attending the party.

    Granted, if too many attendees of the party are just blooded non-regents the
    political glow will be much less (no RP`s), but I do think you could make
    the case (emphasis on could) that a debutante ball gives the girl comming
    out into society her starting RP.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  9. #9
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    I think Gary`s point that a RP entrance fee makes a lot of sense. I find it
    beneficial both in terms of access to the action and in terms of the RP
    reward being easier to justify (as a RP+GB exchange for RP`s).

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  10. #10
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    << I think Gary`s point that a RP entrance fee makes a lot of sense. I find
    it beneficial both in terms of access to the action and in terms of the RP
    reward being easier to justify (as a RP+GB exchange for RP`s).
    >>

    And it also means that the debutante you mentioned earlier has to be
    sponsored (by her daddy?), which would seem to make sense as well.

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