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  1. #1

    Sword, crown and Rhuobhe Manslayer

    In adventure Sword and Crown PCs have to rescue Avan´s daughter who is not exactly innocent.

    1. What will happed if PCs somehow manage to kill Rhuobhe Manslayer ? (never mind how!)

    It is assumed that PC Regent rules Tuornen which in this case also includes the entire territory of Alamie.

    It is also assumed that this is setting where neither Avan or Boeruine has any Holdings in Tournen.

    2. When PCs return to their castle, what kind of compromise would both Avan and Boeruine accept ?

  2. #2
    Site Moderator AndrewTall's Avatar
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    If the PC can kill Rhoubhe and controls the combined duchy of Tuornan and Alamie then Avanil and Boeruine will accept pretty much anything the PC recommends I'd guess...

    The interesting question is whether Avan will take the point that his daughter quite possibly tried to kill him - does he have another heir? Would he declare her contaminated by elven wiles and have her quietly disposed of? At the least there will be comments about her virtue due to her capture and she will be pretty much 'damaged goods' in marriage terms one way or the other regardless of what Avan and Boeruine agree to have publicly said.

    Blaming everything on the (deceased) elf gives Avan a face-saving way out for his 'rescued' daughter, but Boeruine would want some compensation for their hurt pride and the plotting. Sticking Aubrae in a nunnery in Taline for a few years might be acceptible to both - aeriod of reflection and discipline from Avan's perspective, to Boeruine she's not plotting and his ally can keep a close eye on her.

    Another possibility is that Aubrae could be married off - perhaps to an ally of Boeruine (poor sap). Boeruine might accept no public punishment for her if the PC agreed to marry a daughter of his, since that would give him influence and a possibly ally; alternatively the PC marrying Aubrae would satisfy Avan, but Boeruine would need fulsome flattery from the PC's to make clear that Boeruine was openly cleared of the conspiracy he was accused of - not that he'd want to fight Avan and 'greater' Tuornen...

    A lot depends on how public information about the attack on Avan was, how public the princesses collaboration was - will the knights who accompanied the PC's to the Tower talk? Both prince and Duke want to keep face, be cleared of any wrong doing (regardless of any actual guilt) and probably gain some influence over the PC.

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    Senior Member Beruin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dargos View Post
    In adventure Sword and Crown PCs have to rescue Avan´s daughter who is not exactly innocent.

    1. What will happed if PCs somehow manage to kill Rhuobhe Manslayer ? (never mind how!)
    My first inclination is to say this will not happen. The adventure was designed for PCs of 3rd to 5th level, and these will simply not be able to kill Rhuobhe. Even if your PCs are of a level equal to Rhuobhe, I'd doubt they could win. Rhuobhe is on his home turf, he should have allies nearby and even if the PCs could seriously threaten him, he could escape by magic. He is also a genius and the PCs are regents of a neighbouring realm, he should have a really good idea of their capabilities and would be prepared to counter any tactic they could use against him. If my PCs were so foolish as to attack him I would happily thwart every spell they use, I'd spring a few really nasty contingency spells on them and I'd soon bring in additional support - high level elven followers, earth, air and water elementals (i.e. his domain rising up to defend him) and so on.

    What this boils down to is that Rhuobhe can only be killed by the PCs if the DM allows it, and to my mind any DM should have a pretty good idea why he would want to go this way before allowing this to happen. Killing Rhuobhe to me sounds a lot like those groups in the old days that killed Thor or Zeus and took his stuff - it's cheesy.

    Even if you allow them to succeed in killing Rhuobhe, can the PCs escape his domain alive? They would be mercilessly hunted by his followers, getting no chance to rest and replenish spells until they leave his domain and probably long after.

    That said, I can imagine killing Rhuobhe as the starting point of a final campaign arc. When they return, the PCs are hailed as heroes all across Anuire, Avanil and Boeruine and a host of other realms unite under their banner to march against the Gorgon. Should they also succeed in this campaign, the Chamberlain places one of them on the Iron Throne. End of story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beruin View Post
    That said, I can imagine killing Rhuobhe as the starting point of a final campaign arc. When they return, the PCs are hailed as heroes all across Anuire, Avanil and Boeruine and a host of other realms unite under their banner to march against the Gorgon. Should they also succeed in this campaign, the Chamberlain places one of them on the Iron Throne. End of story.
    I had that happen in my final Birthright camp. However my PC's got greedy and ended up dying by the hands of the Serpent but what can ya do?

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    Senior Member Beruin's Avatar
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    Or, the get envious of each other, especially of the one sitting on the Iron Throne, and kill each other off.

  6. #6
    That said, I can imagine killing Rhuobhe as the starting point of a final campaign arc.
    Why ? There are Adventure Paths where PCs can defeat Kyuss or Demogorgon and it ends nothing.

    The way I see it, 3rd Edition Rhuobhe should not be more powerful than 2nd Edition version.

    Birthright works just fine as high-level, high-magic campaign.

    It does not have to hack-and-slash either.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Beruin's Avatar
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    Well, to begin with, notice that I said starting point, not end of a final campaign arc, and the things I outlined in brief certainly won't happen in an instant. There's enough room for quite a lot of game-play here. And other high-level campaigns are also certainly possible.

    However, the point is that killing Rhuobhe is a very significant event in BR. You're starting to go epic here. If your players managed to unite Alamie and Tuornen (and oust Boeruine and Avanil from their realm) during the game, you seem to already have quite a campaign behind you. If you started out this way, you have started out on an epic scale (or made things too easy for your players, imho). Be that as it may, your PCs will certainly recognized as the movers and shakers of Anuire or even all of the Cerilia. Their realm is on a power level equal to the big three (Ghoere, Avanil, Boeruine) and they managed a task no other regent could accomplish.

    Regarding Kyuss and Demogorgon, I disagree with you on two points.

    Firstly, in most other campaign settings, high level or epic villains like these are a dime a dozen. If you defeat Demogorgon, there's still Orcus and about 664 other demon lords posing an equal threat. For BR, I'd rank Rhuobhe at least among the top 5 Awnsheghlien.
    Moreover, the confrontation with these critters does constitute an end of sorts. The adventure paths take the PCs up to 20th level. When you're done with them, you can either finish the campaign or start with epic play, but you're basically finished with the 'normal' career and advancement of an adventurer.

    With regard to Rhuobhe, his 3e build has been discussed a number of times before, and here is a truly epic build. What he looks like in your campaign is of course up to you, but a Rhuobhe who can be defeated by a bunch of PCs who just happen to walk by is not the Rhuobhe you'll find in my campaign
    Last edited by Beruin; 10-15-2007 at 02:51 PM. Reason: minor edit

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