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Thread: Ascension

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    Ascension

    For awhile now I have been running a campaign that started at 5th lvl.
    And has progressed to a Epic Godling path of Ascension, using the Book of Immortals. It Started off as an all Elf campaign. Only 2 elves remain and the others are 2 Humans and 1 Dwarf. They are close to the end of their path and I would like to ask some opinions and questions.

    When the current gods ascended (ones at Mt Desimar) I have always asumed that the reason they ascended to the Lvl of Greater gods was because of the release of all the old gods blood. And the one that ascended after that went straight to lesser gods was acounted for because they wear blodded people. Any way they skipped Demi god status. If this is so them how would my people ascended? One comes from a True Bloodline and all the others have maxed their blood long ago. When they ascended will they skip Demi-god status? And if so by how much?

    Falamar

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    Senior Member ploesch's Avatar
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    Falamar,
    I think you misunderstood how the New gods came to be slightly. It wasn't just because of the Release of the Gods energy. Those that Ascended were the ones that were closest to the Gods Philosophically. I think that the strength of Bloodlines was also not only about how physically close to the gods you were, but also how philosophically close you were to your own god. Obviously there is a Physical component because there are so many that received a bloodline from a god other than their patron.

    The newer gods all tend to be the children of the new gods. So there isn't really a precedent in BR for characters ascending.

    That leaves the field wide open for you to do what you want. I really don't enjoy god level campaigns, especially in a BR setting where challenges are more mundane. But if that's what you enjoy go for it.

    If I was to run that type of campaign, I would require that the characters have true bloodlines to ascend. This would represent Epic tasks the PC's completed to make them beloved by the people (a pre-requisite for becoming a god IMO). They would also have to establish at least informal churches for themselves, I am not familiar with the book you are using, but in the old days Gods had 1 God HP per 100 worship points they had. Once they became sufficiently powerful enough, the Gods themselves would start testing them. If any God saw something they didn't like, they would seek to kill them, and would of course succeed unless other gods liked them enough to intercede.

    In BR the Gods have a pact to not interfere in Mortal matters, but when someone seeks to become a god, it's no longer a Mortal matter.
    When you play the game of thrones you win or you die.
    George R. R. Martin - A song of Ice and Fire

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    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    I agree with the need for true bloodline in order to ascend.

    In 2nd ed (and the BRCS) you cannot gain a true bloodline. (See Book of Regency in 2nd ed for how to increase ones bloodline strength {i.e., tainted to minor to major}. It specifically states under no circumstance can a scion increase their bloodline to true.

    Also in 2nd ed the "present" gods are not all "greater gods" per 2nd ed terminology.

    Haelyn, Erik, Avani, are the greater human deities.

    Nesirie, Sera, Belinik are the intermediate deities and the rest are lesser.

    The 3.0 book Deities and Demigods has infor on stolen and imparted divinity (pg 11) and deicide (pg 18) all of which might be useful to you.
    Duane Eggert

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    Book of the Immortals
    http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/catalo...oducts_id=1670
    A True bloodline isn't required to become a god. No bloodline is required.
    I have one toon who has a true bloodline but this is a group thing why would i only allow one of them to make it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falamar
    Book of the Immortals
    http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/catalo...oducts_id=1670
    A True bloodline isn't required to become a god. No bloodline is required.
    I have one toon who has a true bloodline but this is a group thing why would i only allow one of them to make it.
    Well, i don't know what the book says, but i think a bloodline should be required in Birthright. It's essential to the setting.

    Without it, the whole point of having a bloodline is greatly diminished. If a non-blooded character can ultimately exceed the power of those who do have a bloodline, then, what's the point of a bloodline in the first place?

    Even the Gorgon, the most powerful creature on Cerilia, is no where close to ascending to godhood. How can a mere non-scion do so?


    -Fizz

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    This is not true. It said in the book that the Gorgon choose not to ascend.
    If you can't grasp the concept of a group of lvl 30 godlings thats ok.
    I am not asking permission.
    I have 1 True bloodline an Elf that was around for Mt Desimar and 4 great Bloodline that have maxed their blood scores out. The truth of the matter is that anyone can ascend to godhood and these people are on that path.

    They are no longer in Bloodspace atm for breaking the pack of no physical violence between the gods. And were Banished. They will not beable to return untill Demigod status is achieved.

    My question is to the developers is wiether or not their bloodlines will change how they ascend. If I can't get an answer other than "Don't let them ascend" I will cont. on my own accord.

    Not everyone likes hi powered games and most can't comprehend letting anyone get as powerfull as the original bad guys but it happens.

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    Senior Member ploesch's Avatar
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    Falamar, No one is telling you you can't do what you want. This board isn't a board for the developers to tell you what to do. Most of us here are not developers, just players and GM's ourselves, and are trying to answer your question and give advice as best we can. What you do with that advice is up to you.

    I really don't care what the book you are basing their ascension on says. In the BRCS Bloodlines represent your Connection to the land, and closeness to the Godliness. This is why we have suggested that a True Bloodline should be required to Ascend. This has nothing to do with the book your following, your book was not written to be specific to every campaign. If they had written it specifically for BRCS, then they would likely agree. In BR, True Bloodlines should be a pre-requisite for Ascension.

    Now, the rules say you shouldn't allow a PC to increase their Bloodline more than once a lifetime, and PC's should never be allowed to have/gain true Bloodlines. You already broke that rule. For your game, since the goal is to have them ascend, I would ignore that Rule, and just make it a very difficult thing to achieve. Consider it an adventure hook, how to gain a true Bloodline.

    This is all a suggestion, and is not written by the developers, or Official. However, I think most here, including the developers, would agree that IF they were to allow PC's to Ascend, then a True Bloodline would be a pre-requisite.
    When you play the game of thrones you win or you die.
    George R. R. Martin - A song of Ice and Fire

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    You say that it is said that pc's shouldn't be allowed to raise thier bloodlines but once. Then please explain the bloodseeker class that is all about usrption and raising one blood score. Or explain why it is that once the true bloodline has disappeared that bloodspace will never again have anyone ascend?

    I am here for opinions and sugestions. But not here for people to tell me that I can't do what has been done.

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    Senior Member ploesch's Avatar
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    Raising ones Bloodscore, and raising your Blood strength are completely separate. There is no limit in the rules to how much you can raise your BloodScore. Although, by the 3E rules, the higher your Blood score the more difficult it is to increase. It has always been in the rules that you shouldn't allow raising of Blood Strength more than once in a generation, and even then it takes an accomplishment of Epic porportions as well as having increased you blood score by a certain ammount over starting.

    Appropriate sections (From the Sanctioned Chap 2 3E Rules):
    True bloodlines are unique. Only the greatest heroes of Deismaar, those who were both physically and philosophically closest to the expiring gods, were granted True bloodlines. Only these surviving heroes or their direct heirs through bloodline investiture have True bloodlines. There are believed to be less than a dozen true bloodlines in existence. All known True bloodlines are currently possessed by powerful awnshegh or ehrshegh. These individuals are near demigods and are rumored to be able to grant a divine connection that allows their followers access to divine magic. Some True scions are rumored to have other divine abilities beyond the ken of most mortals.
    PCs should not generally be allowed to have True bloodlines. These are reserved for those present at Deismaar and their direct descendents.
    The first step toward increasing a scion's bloodline strength lies in his ability score. The scion must increase his bloodline score to ten or more points above its starting value. Secondly, the character must achieve public fame (or infamy) through their deeds and actions. Legendary feats build the public acclaim that is essential to increasing the strength of a character's semi-divine blood. A quest to increase one's bloodline strength requires an epic deed; an increase in bloodline strength never occurs without deeds that are the stuff of legend. A character can never increase his bloodline strength more than once in a generation; this reflects how legendary the act truly is.
    Ascension of PC's to godhood is not something that is covered in the BRCS rules. It is somewhat the basis of the Campaign setting, but was never intended as something for the PC's to accomplish.

    I just wanted to point to some ideas that would allow you to stay more in line with the campaign setting, and still accomplish what you want. There is no reason you can't ignore increasing Blood Strength more than once a Generation. I would suggest though, that if you want to stay with the flavor of the BRCS, then a true Bloodline would be a requirement of Ascension.

    As I've stated previously. It's your game, do what you want to.
    When you play the game of thrones you win or you die.
    George R. R. Martin - A song of Ice and Fire

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    Falamar, you seem to be confusing Birthright material with other material.

    Book of the Immortals is NOT a Birthright product. So when you ask a question about bloodlines here (the Birthright boards), we're going to answer you from the context of Birthright, not this other book. Most people here don't have that book. It is not related to Birthright.

    Likewise, what is this bloodseeker class? Is it from the Book of Immortals? If so, then it too is NOT a Birthright class. The rules for that class, and that whole book do not, by default, apply to Birthright.

    In Birthright, the official rules say that you can only raise your bloodline strength (not score) once. They also say you can't have a PC with a True bloodline, and only characters with a True bloodline could theoretically achieve demigod status. (Several awnshegh have true bloodlines, and none of them have achieved.) Those are the official rules for Birthright.

    What you do in your own campaign is your business. If you want to apply The Book of Immortals to your campaign, by all means do.

    But you can't expect people here to be famililar with a non-Birthright product, and then refer to them as `official' rules. If you ask a question here, the answer is going to be from the perspective the official setting.


    -Fizz

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