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02-02-2005, 09:01 AM #1Let me claim your Birthright!!
02-02-2005, 09:02 AM #2
Version 2.Let me claim your Birthright!!
02-02-2005, 10:46 AM #3
- Join Date
- Jun 2002
i think this is a great and very balanced pr class
02-02-2005, 10:57 AM #4
02-02-2005, 02:51 PM #5
- Join Date
- Oct 2004
- Blackgate, Danigau
I find it difficult to consider PrCs which only(or predominately) have domain/army level abilities. These PrCs and the battlepriest would work differently in different BR styles.
In a domain only game (no adventuring), these warcraft classes wipe the floor with core classes. Any domain regent considering waging war would shoot for one of these PrCs without fail. If a player would be foolish to not take a PrC vs a core class, then perhaps the class is unbalanced/overpowered.
In an adventure game, these warcraft classes are total duds. Compared to an equal level core class PC I think you might even be more of a liability than a help in a dungeon.
Original DnD incorporates two basic games, combat and socialization/roleplaying. At times these two are difficult to juggle. A fighter with no skill points thinks talking in town is boring, while the bard can struggle thru hack-and-slash sessions.
BR adds a fun third game of domain level play. But PrCs with only domain level goodies makes the juggling act harder.
If you game with only domain level play, then the focus of these domain centered classes is a fake limitation or balancing mechanism. In that style of game, these classes are much better than core class fighters. If every fighter is a general in your game, why cant they all get these army abilities? Perhaps a better way to model some exceptional characters military genius is to make these abilities feats. Then a military genius is someone who has gained many levels, spent all of their feats on warcard battle related feats, and turned their int bonus into a killer warcraft score.
For example, every one of the second Warlord's(TheWarlordEW.doc) abilities could probably be turned into a feat. They might each have a prerequisite of a feat like:
A warlord is a powerful general who excels on the battlefield, in gathering and leading armies, and in innovative ways to manage armies, whether strategically, tactically, or logistically. A warlord can drive lesser men on to greater deeds, whether through clemency or cruelty. Some warlords strive to be the shining beacon of righteousness and law; others are nothing but depraved torturists, whose names strike fear in the heart of commoners many kingdoms away.
Prerequisite: Warcraft skill (or maybe: Must have victoriously lead any army of at least one unit of soldiers in battle.), BAB +?
Benefits: +3 Warcraft skill checks,
the warlord’s reputation is such that he can recruit great armies with ease on his reputation alone. If using the Leadership feat to recruit a military cohort, the warlord can attract twice as many units as normally permitted, and he may recruit two units per month instead of one.
some such thing any general would like
Then the warcraft/warlord feats would be outshoots from this feat; either singley or in related chains. [the current military genius would probably not be a good feat to have the warlord feats be dependent upon because the +13int requirement would make it too exclusive.]
Great battle priests or wizards might also be modeled similarly...
Great guilders or other domain level specialists would probably also be best modeled by feats.
Paired with this model of great generals, classes with entirely domain level class abilities would be shunned.(ie not in the Atlas)
I dont know if many people will agree with this. I get the feeling that these domain level PrCs are feeding powergamer min/maxing in a Darwinian response to their DMs game style.
My feat based idea is just an idea. Im mostly interested in getting discussion about this kind of PrC started.
Please chime in.
02-02-2005, 08:37 PM #6
Of the two presented I like the second one better.
I like the feat idea of the abilities. Though you could just add the feats to the fighter bonus list and have basically the same thing ( half the abilities though).
Question on the bonuses, do the units get those modifiers permanently or do they have them when lead by the warlord.
Like should the wording be on infantry be, the warlard adds +2 to melee to up to his int mod in units(minimum 1) of troops that he leads?
It just seems wierd to me that troops would benifit from the warlord's expertise in generalling(sp) when the general isn't involved in the battle.
02-02-2005, 10:17 PM #7
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Montreal, Canada
Of the two, I like the second class the best because the reqs are a bit harsher but it allows the character to really choose his field of specialty. The class is built similarly to the Archmage and Hierophant classes. Unlike the others, the character doesn't "sacrifice" spellcasting ability or spell slots to gain these new abilities. On the other hand, the character's benefits only apply to warfare so it evens out to an extent. So far the consensus is that the class is a bit too powerful so here are some suggestions to either go about making it "weaker" and also some additions of my own ideas.
1) Reduce the hit dice to d8 because the general is less prone to engage combat directly.
2) Profession (siege engineer) is pretty much already covered under Knowledge (architecture and engineering), creating a new skill is just pointless.
3) It should have handle animal as a class skill because it already has ride.
4) If it were not for the creation of the warcraft and lead skills in BR I would normally suggest the Bluff and Sense Motive as class skills. But since they do, I'm not certain if they should be kept or not.
5) The Armor proficiencies should be capped at shields (not Tower shields) and medium armor so that the class can apply to the non-Anuirean cultures as well.
6) Add some more defensive warlord abilities. Currently the abilities seem to heavily favor aggression.
7) The best generals fight only when they are certain to win, so I would suggest one of the abilities to choose from would allow a warlord to avoid confrontation (maybe an opposed warcraft check) before battle is engaged and the terrain is decided.
02-03-2005, 07:53 AM #8
I think I will be posting a similar class in a couple of days; it basically is a combination of tactical combat expert and a fair player outside the field... Abilities the class has is the ability to purchase arms and armour that the area logistics would not allow (to costly for the present location) by contributing additional funds in his purchase, inspirational abilities, special combat abilities, and, more or less, this is it...
02-03-2005, 08:47 AM #9
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