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  1. #1
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    What is the distribution of bloodline strength among Cerilia`s scion? That

    is, of the five bloodline strength categories; tainted, minor, major,

    great, true in the total population of scions, what percentage of each are

    there?



    tainted

    minor

    major

    great

    true



    The RB, of course, has its little table for assigning bloodline strength,

    but that`s designed for PC generation, not an expression of actual

    demographics. The 3e BRCS Playtest has its own percentages, but tainted

    bloodlines are omitted from the system used in that text.



    Gary

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    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by geeman@Jan 29 2004, 03:09 PM
    What is the distribution of bloodline strength among Cerilia`s scion? That

    is, of the five bloodline strength categories; tainted, minor, major,

    great, true in the total population of scions, what percentage of each are

    there?



    tainted

    minor

    major

    great

    true



    The RB, of course, has its little table for assigning bloodline strength,

    but that`s designed for PC generation, not an expression of actual

    demographics. The 3e BRCS Playtest has its own percentages, but tainted

    bloodlines are omitted from the system used in that text.



    Gary

    I don't know why using the table in the BR Rulebook would be that out of line. True, it is designed for PC generation, but it should work for a demographic too. If not, then every single scion would have to accounted for. Since most of the lesser scions are not listed in any published sourcebook it still falls on the DM to fill in the blanks.

    So no matter how it is cut, there is some extrapolation involved.
    Duane Eggert

  3. #3
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 09:28 PM 1/29/2004 +0100, irdeggman wrote:



    >I don`t know why using the table in the BR Rulebook would be that out of

    >line. True, it is designed for PC generation, but it should work for a

    >demographic too. If not, then every single scion would have to accounted

    >for. Since most of the lesser scions are not listed in any published

    >sourcebook it still falls on the DM to fill in the blanks.

    >

    > So no matter how it is cut, there is some extrapolation involved.



    Many of the tables for bloodline system in the original RB used very

    strange and even nonsensical percentages from what I can tell. I`ve been

    trying to discern the logic and math of Table 12 for years now and I`m

    still coming up blank. The percentages in the RB (Table 10) aren`t as

    bizarre, but they are still somewhat odd and top heavy:



    Tainted 25%

    Minor 40%

    Major 30%

    Great 5%



    70% chance to be minor or major seems more like an attempt to have PCs with

    a certain "average" range rather than an attempt to accurately portray the

    percentages of such characters. One could, of course, rationalize such a

    thing (lower bloodlines die out, etc.) but such arguments are pretty easily

    countered, and don`t really add up in the first place IMO.



    The numbers presented in the Playtest by contrast are



    Minor 65%

    Major (presumably 35%)

    Great <0.1%



    which would appear to be a recognition that there should be some sort of

    distribution in accordance to the power of the bloodline strength scores.



    Gary

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    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    If you look at the percentages from the standpoint of the Chap 2 revision table

    Approx 65% Minor
    30% Major
    5% Great

    and then combine the tainted and minor numbers from the BR Rulebook (much more approriate since they are more functionally the same than are minor and major bloodlines) you end up with

    Approx 65% Minor
    30% Major
    5% Great

    Amazing the coincidence, isn&#39;t it?

    Now as I recall Kenneth&#39;s system (based on comments not ever having seen his complete house rules - you really should post them on the downloads seeing as how much detail and effert you&#39;ve put into them, again based on comments)
    He bases the strength of bloodlines on the number (and size) of holdings available in an area. Essentially the greater &#39;need&#39; for bloodlines the greater the strength and number of scion in the area. Maybe I&#39;ve oversimlpified, but I believe that was the underlying principle there. That will work and makes sense logically, but is far too detailed and time consuming for the average DM, IMO.
    Duane Eggert

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    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    I just pick a bloodline strength based on your character backround.

    Depending on the detail of your backround an the goals the character has, I

    can pick a number out of hat (which is typically d6+12). If you claim to be

    related to a known character (eg. the Mhor`s nephew) I look at that

    character, and basically average the NPC`s bloodline with 15. If a player

    wants a higher bloodline, I will give more, but I reserve the right in those

    cases to make the game world a bit more demanding of your character. Side

    with me, help my cause, defend my town, find this relic, lead this army,

    swear this oath, accept this burden.



    My system amounts to pick a number that makes sense in the context of the

    character and their situation.



    Kenneth Gauck

    kgauck@mchsi.com

  6. #6
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    ----- Original Message -----

    From: "irdeggman" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>

    Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 4:00 AM





    > and then combine the tainted and minor numbers from the BR

    > Rulebook (much more approriate since they are more functionally

    > the same than are minor and major bloodlines) you end up with

    >

    > Approx 65% Minor

    > 30% Major

    > 5% Great

    >

    > Amazing the coincidence, isn`t it?



    Hmmm, I`m not sure. I have 169 characters in my bloodline database (one of

    these days I`ll add more characters). Its everyone mentioned in Ruins of

    Empire and the basin states from Havens of the Great Bay. I include figures

    like Moro Mentier of Illien. Which makes me think I might be going through

    PS`s too. Its been a while. And Sarae Somellin of Mieres. I count 15

    tainted bloodlines. 71 minor bloodlines. 68 major bloodlines, 14 great

    bloodlines (of whom only 3 are Anuirean humans, 3 are elves, and 8 are

    Brecht !?!)



    Tainted plus minor is 51%, major is 41%, and great is 8%. This could be

    because the Havens basin states screw up the nice stats from Anuire.



    Sorting only for Anuire, I get 11 tainted, 55 minor, 55 major, and 5 great .



    Tainted plus minor is 52%, major is 43%, and great is 4% (1% rounding).



    Kenneth Gauck

    kgauck@mchsi.com

  7. #7
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by kgauck@Jan 30 2004, 03:23 PM
    ----- Original Message -----

    From: "irdeggman" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>

    Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 4:00 AM





    > and then combine the tainted and minor numbers from the BR

    > Rulebook (much more approriate since they are more functionally

    > the same than are minor and major bloodlines) you end up with

    >

    > Approx 65% Minor

    > 30% Major

    > 5% Great

    >

    > Amazing the coincidence, isn`t it?



    Hmmm, I`m not sure. I have 169 characters in my bloodline database (one of

    these days I`ll add more characters). Its everyone mentioned in Ruins of

    Empire and the basin states from Havens of the Great Bay. I include figures

    like Moro Mentier of Illien. Which makes me think I might be going through

    PS`s too. Its been a while. And Sarae Somellin of Mieres. I count 15

    tainted bloodlines. 71 minor bloodlines. 68 major bloodlines, 14 great

    bloodlines (of whom only 3 are Anuirean humans, 3 are elves, and 8 are

    Brecht &#33;?&#33



    Tainted plus minor is 51%, major is 41%, and great is 8%. This could be

    because the Havens basin states screw up the nice stats from Anuire.



    Sorting only for Anuire, I get 11 tainted, 55 minor, 55 major, and 5 great .



    Tainted plus minor is 52%, major is 43%, and great is 4% (1% rounding).



    Kenneth Gauck

    kgauck@mchsi.com












    Good database Kenneth. The problem comes in if it is assumed that all of the mentioned scions in the published material reflect an accurate cross section. IMO this is probably false, since in general only the extraordinary and important ones are mentioned - not the 3rd son of some minor noble, etc. Hence the NPCs mentioned would tend to skew to the higher bloodline strengths and this could easily explain the difference between the percentages.

    It also looks like the monsters (Awnshegh) will take up a lot of the scions mentioned, which is pretty un cross section - like (and top heavy).
    Duane Eggert

  8. #8
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    ----- Original Message -----

    From: "irdeggman" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>

    Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 2:37 PM



    > The problem comes in if it is assumed that all of the mentioned scions

    > in the published material reflect an accurate cross section. IMO this

    > is probably false.



    Agreed. That`s why my ideal situation would be to build a typical realm

    from the ground up and go back and look at the choices made. Even looking

    at my Taelshore site reveals I have concentrated more heaviliy rulers at the

    realm level. In part this is because I add published figures faster than I

    invent characters, in part its because I have a need to know Mheallie Bireon

    and not the Guildsdeputy in Mountainsedge, unless we go to Mountainsedge.



    > It also looks like the monsters (Awnshegh) will take up a lot of the

    > scions mentioned, which is pretty un cross section - like (and top heavy).



    Which is why I don`t track them in my database, unless you can encounter

    them in human form and not know their abominable nature.



    Kenneth Gauck

    kgauck@mchsi.com

  9. #9
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 11:00 AM 1/30/2004 +0100, irdeggman wrote:



    >If you look at the percentages from the standpoint of the Chap 2 revision

    >table

    >

    > Approx 65% Minor

    > 30% Major

    > 5% Great

    >

    > and then combine the tainted and minor numbers from the BR Rulebook

    > (much more approriate since they are more functionally the same than are

    > minor and major bloodlines) you end up with

    >

    > Approx 65% Minor

    > 30% Major

    > 5% Great

    >

    > Amazing the coincidence, isn`t it?



    Right... My point, however, was that the numbers in the original RB weren`t

    really all that sensible as a portrayal of the actual spread of bloodline

    strength through the population of scions on the whole continent. Those

    numbers are workable for character generation, but if describing the whole

    range of PC and NPC scions, it seems fairly sensible given the way

    bloodlines are inherited and handed down that there would be more major

    than great, more minor than major, and more tainted than minor. Table 10

    isn`t the zaniest table in the BR materials, but it`s not necessarily meant

    to be an accurate portrayel of the demographics of bloodline

    strength. It`s all well and good that the Playtest stayed as close as

    possible to the original distribution of bloodline strength in its

    descriptive text, but there`s not a lot of actual reason in that system for

    bloodlines to be laid out like that table, nor in any of the proposed

    bloodline systems IIRC, so what I`m asking about is what is the actual,

    Cerilia-wide distribution of bloodline strength in the whole population?



    >Now as I recall Kenneth`s system (based on comments not ever having seen

    >his complete house rules - you really should post them on the downloads

    >seeing as how much detail and effert you`ve put into them, again based on

    >comments)

    > He bases the strength of bloodlines on the number (and size) of holdings

    > available in an area. Essentially the greater `need` for bloodlines the

    > greater the strength and number of scion in the area. Maybe I`ve

    > oversimlpified, but I believe that was the underlying principle

    > there. That will work and makes sense logically, but is far too detailed

    > and time consuming for the average DM, IMO.



    I think that`s workable to a certain extent, but in general does it

    describe the distribution of bloodline strength through the whole

    population or does it better describe the location of the said

    scions? That is, doesn`t that better locate the existing scions according

    to their bloodline strength, but it still doesn`t tell us how many of each

    (as a percentage) there are in the whole continent?



    Gary

  10. #10
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by geeman@Jan 31 2004, 08:24 AM
    I think that`s workable to a certain extent, but in general does it

    describe the distribution of bloodline strength through the whole

    population or does it better describe the location of the said

    scions? That is, doesn`t that better locate the existing scions according

    to their bloodline strength, but it still doesn`t tell us how many of each

    (as a percentage) there are in the whole continent?



    Gary

    Unfortunately it never will since the unnotable scions will never be mentioned in any source document that can be used as a reference.

    That is to say there is no basis to determine the &#39;proper&#39; demographics and IMO there is none.
    Duane Eggert

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