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  1. #1
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    In the description of the Birthright world in both 2e and 3e, it is supposed to be a low magic item world. Their are few magic items available and those that exist have a value above 4,000 gp. Yet their is no game mechanic given to account for the lack of magic items. The BRCS does give a reason, that mages believe power should be earned, not given, so they are loath to create a plethora of magic items. This reasoning rings hollow to me, since Birthright is a world where the majority of power is not earned, but is a right that inviduals are born to. It might make sense that wizards would be wary about selling weapons to the unblooded, but certainly not to those who have the divine escence within their blood. Here are a few suggestions for game mechanics which would account for the scarcity of magic items.

    1. In addition to the normal costs of producing magic items, they all require an extra amount of material and production costs. For arguments sake this could be 1,000 gp worth. A ring an expensive jewel, an armour might have gold and silver gilding, a wand with many small emeralds which turn to ash after each charge is used. This would both make magic items somewhat rarer and inexpensive magic items significantly rarer.

    2. an additional base xp cost.

    3. Instead or requiring items to be merely of masterwork quality, require them to be superior masterwork. This would of course require purchasing the item from a dwarf.

    4. require that the item be crafted by the mage which is going to enchant it. This would of course require a mage to spend more time creating the item, and probably to invest skill point into the particular craft skill. This side also has the side effect of encouraging mages to create multiple similar items which is also against the theme of the game.

    5. require a certain amount of regency to be spent in creating the item. This would of course preclude the non-blooded and those who are blooded but do not have any holdings from creating magic items.
    Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

  2. #2
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    To make magic items more prevalent in the Forgotten Realms, the Red Wizards of Thay sell most minor magic items with a 10% discount.

    Maybe in Birthright, everything should have a 10% price increase.
    I walk this fine thread...

    Mourn

  3. #3
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    I would be wary of making it too hard to create magical items, however some of your suggestions have merit. The BRCS (pg. 152) also has something to say about this topic, although no real rules for changing the cost of creating items.

    Increasing the base cost and time taken to create magical items are probably the easiest ways of dealing with magical items. However, increasing the cost also increases the time, so that deals with both at the same time. And as regent mages are fairly poor most of the time anyway, this means they won't be able to create many magical items.

    For example: a ring of protection +1 normally takes two days to create + 1 GB in materials. Assuming a cost of x4 for BR, then it will now take 8 days (1 week) and cost 4 GB, which is a fair amount for a wizard. It also cost 1/25 is base price in xp or 320 xp in this case.

    The cost x4 rules is the one I'll be using in my pbem anyway.
    Let me claim your Birthright!!

  4. #4
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Yes, the "low magic" variant proposed increasing the cost of magic items by 30% (which was the recommended cost increase in 2nd ed by the way). This is the simpliest way to do it, since increasing the base cost increases the time and the exp cost involved in crating magic items (as Ian pointed out).

    The DMG allows the DM to impart "special" conditions such as requisite materials etc. IMO it is best to leave that as is and allow, but not in any way restrict, the DM to input these kind of increases.
    Duane Eggert

  5. #5
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    4. require that the item be crafted by the mage which is going to enchant it. This would of course require a mage to spend more time creating the item, and probably to invest skill point into the particular craft skill. This side also has the side effect of encouraging mages to create multiple similar items which is also against the theme of the game.
    I like this idea - it enhances the idea of having dedicated articifers be the main creators of magic items.

    5. require a certain amount of regency to be spent in creating the item. This would of course preclude the non-blooded and those who are blooded but do not have any holdings from creating magic items.
    This, too, is an interesting way to explain the rarity of artifacts. It might be good to replace the xp cost with RP cost (BRCS suggests 1 RP per 10 xp as a variant).

    The other good thing about having blooded scions be the only ones capable of magic item creation is that it limits both clerics and mages. What seems to be frequently forgotten is that clerics can also create magic items as easily as mages, and in Cerilia they are far more numerous than true mages.

    -Osprey

  6. #6
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    Originally posted by Osprey@Oct 11 2003, 04:35 AM
    It might be good to replace the xp cost with RP cost (BRCS suggests 1 RP per 10 xp as a variant).

    I would argue against replacing the xp cost with an rp cost, unless a DM is sure that RP will be tight within their campaign. Several posts have described games in which players are flush with RP and have few things to spend it on. In such cases magic items would become easier to create for players. Adding a RP cost might be more appropriate. Even a token cost of 1 RP per item would serve to limit creation to blooded regents.
    Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

  7. #7
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    Osprey schrieb:



    >This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

    > You can view the entire thread at:

    > http://www.birthright.net/forums/ind...ST&f=36&t=2006

    > Osprey wrote:

    >
    4. require that the item be crafted by the mage which is going to enchant it. This would of course require a mage to spend more time creating the item, and probably to invest skill point into the particular craft skill. This side also has the side effect of encouraging mages to create multiple similar items which is also against the theme of the game.

    >
    > I like this idea - it enhances the idea of having dedicated articifers be the main creators of magic items.

    >
    5. require a certain amount of regency to be spent in creating the item. This would of course preclude the non-blooded and those who are blooded but do not have any holdings from creating magic items.
    >

    > This, too, is an interesting way to explain the rarity of artifacts. It might be good to replace the xp cost with RP cost (BRCS suggests 1 RP per 10 xp as a variant).

    >

    > The other good thing about having blooded scions be the only ones capable of magic item creation is that it limits both clerics and mages. What seems to be frequently forgotten is that clerics can also create magic items as easily as mages, and in Cerilia they are far more numerous than true mages.

    > -Osprey

    >

    >

    And as the 2E limitation of specialty priests who were severely limited

    by knowing not all spells and thus could not create all magic items

    themselves alone has been eliminated with the 3E "generic cleric+2

    domains" adding more restrictions to clerics creating magic items is good.

    bye

    Michael

  8. #8
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Osprey@Oct 10 2003, 10:35 PM


    This, too, is an interesting way to explain the rarity of artifacts. It might be good to replace the xp cost with RP cost (BRCS suggests 1 RP per 10 xp as a variant).

    The other good thing about having blooded scions be the only ones capable of magic item creation is that it limits both clerics and mages. What seems to be frequently forgotten is that clerics can also create magic items as easily as mages, and in Cerilia they are far more numerous than true mages.

    -Osprey
    [/quote]
    Actually the variant was 1 point of bloodline score to 1000 xp.

    I, personally, am very much against using RP to magic item creation. My reasoning on this is that it is supposed to "cost" the creator something that he had gained due to risk, (i.e., exp). RP is like gaining interest, the regent doesn't really have to risk anything in order to gain it. Bloodline score on the ohter hand is something that is very significant and dear to al scions.
    Duane Eggert

  9. #9
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    Actually the variant was 1 point of bloodline score to 1000 xp.

    I, personally, am very much against using RP to magic item creation. My reasoning on this is that it is supposed to "cost" the creator something that he had gained due to risk, (i.e., exp). RP is like gaining interest, the regent doesn't really have to risk anything in order to gain it. Bloodline score on the ohter hand is something that is very significant and dear to al scions.
    Oops, my mistake. I was discussing the 10:1 cost a a variant, and got it mixed up with the bloodline point:xp variant.

    Ironically, 1:1000 is actually cheaper for weaker scions (by current BRCS rules, 100 RP = cost to raise to 25 bloodline score). But I like your point that losing permanent bloodline score seems like more of a sacrifice.

    While we're on it, there's some need for clarification. On p. 152 of the BRCS it says:
    The exchange rate is 1000 experience points for every point of bloodline score so sacrificed. This sacrifice can only be used once per item or spell.
    Once per item, yet multiple bloodline points may be spent? There seems to be a contradiction here. Magical item creation is a continuous process, so why would anyone do it more than once?

    -Osprey

  10. #10
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    The BRCS gives a variant for RP use in the creation of magic item in Chapter 3 on page 57. The RP:xp ratio is 1:10. It also takes a month long ritual in addition to the normal item creation time.
    Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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