12 Duchies

[Arjan]

Sorry for the inconvenience, i deleted the whole thread while editing double posts...

poilbrun wrote:
Hello!

I'm rather new to BR, and I'd like to have a list of the 12 old duchies of Anuire. Here is those I think I know ;)
Avanil
Diemed
Aerenwe
Cariele
The two that have formed Ghoere (could someone please tell me the two names?)
Brosengae

I suppose there would be Alamie, Mhoried, Boeruine, since these are still big realms today. What about the parts that are now Coeranys, Elinie, Osoerde? What about Tuarhievel, Sielwode and Baruk-Azik? Where they considered part of the duchies? What about the goblin realms, and the Anshwelien territories?

In which book is this information? Is this available as ESD?

Thanks!

The Tribes of the Andu
At the time of Deismaar, the Anuireans were known as the Andu. They were a federation of tribes, much like the Germans in Rome's time, although they were more technologically and culturally advanced. We know that the Deretha, the Fifth House, became the folk of Diemed, and the Elins became the people of Elinie. Other tribes tend to fall along the lines of the Twelve Duchies.

The Twelve Duchies
When the Empire was an Empire, the most important lands were the Twelve Duchies: Avanil, Boeruine, Mhoried, Diemed, Alamie, Osoerde, Aerenwe, Taeghas, Elinie, Cariele, Ghieste, and Dhalaene. All these lands still survive today, although Cariele has suffered in the expansion of Thurazor and the Five Peaks, while Ghieste and Dhalaene together became Ghoere after the Empire's fall.

New Kingdoms
Many new domains have been formed since Michael's death. Tuornen split off from Alamie; Ghieste and Dhalaene were united as Ghoere; Medoere, Endier, and Ilien all declared independence from Diemed; and Roesone was carved out of Diemed and Aerenwe. Note that Talinie's current dynasty came to power recently, but Talinie goes back well before the fall of the Empire.

[Green Knight]

From where exactly do we know that the Elins became the people of
Elinie? Just wondering, because "Elin" is a pretty boring girl`s name in
Norway, and I don`t hink I like the sound of it, nor can I remember
reading about it :-)

>The Tribes of the Andu
>We know that the Deretha, the Fifth House, became the folk of Diemed,
and >the Elins became the people of Elinie. Other tribes tend to fall
along the >lines of the Twelve Duchies.

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[Green Knight]

I always pictured the Andu as having only five Houses (or some such)
when they came to Cerilia. The organization into Duchies came only after
the formation of the Empire; mostly as rewards to those scions who had
proven their loyalty to Roele, or who were strong enough to warrant
recognition by the fledgeling Emperor.

We know from the PS of Roesone that the Deretha eventually became the
folk of Diemed and environs. Other than that it is pretty sketchy to say
the least. In my minds eye, I always envisioned Diem, scion of the
Deretha and loyal supporter of Emperor Roele, being granted the lands
along the South Coast to hold as his own. Likewise, I liked thinking
that the Boru (from the BoP) was akin to the Deretha, and that this
house settled the West Coast. They got their recognition from Roele, not
through excessive loyalty, but because of their power and the remoteness
of their holdings.

Point is, I didn`t like the ancient house = new duchy link. Too much
happened for this to be an appealing solution. More likely/appealing to
me, that Roele was the deciding factor as to who got what, and how this
ended up as the Twelve Duchies.

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[Arjan]

a while back i received some foles from Rich Baker, this part about the 12 duchies was an excerp of the original email.
Heres a copy of the whole file:

Date: 11 May 1995
From: Rich Baker
To: BIRTHRIGHT Groupes

RE: That Wacky Old Empire

I came across a potential stumbling block in the history of the Anuirean Empire. The map of Anuire represents the Empire as it stands today, in 551 Michaeline Reckoning. The world changes constantly, and a lot of nations (especially those that appear in our Domain Packs) came into being within the last 100-200 years. (Just look at a map of Europe in 1914.) References to nations in the past should be checked carefully! They might not have existed at the time you're talking about.

The Tribes of the Andu
At the time of Deismaar, the Anuireans were known as the Andu. They were a federation of tribes, much like the Germans in Rome's time, although they were more technologically and culturally advanced. We know that the Deretha, the Fifth House, became the folk of Diemed, and the Elins became the people of Elinie. Other tribes tend to fall along the lines of the Twelve Duchies.

The Twelve Duchies
When the Empire was an Empire, the most important lands were the Twelve Duchies: Avanil, Boeruine, Mhoried, Diemed, Alamie, Osoerde, Aerenwe, Taeghas, Elinie, Cariele, Ghieste, and Dhalaene. All these lands still survive today, although Cariele has suffered in the expansion of Thurazor and the Five Peaks, while Ghieste and Dhalaene together became Ghoere after the Empire's fall.

New Kingdoms
Many new domains have been formed since Michael's death. Tuornen split off from Alamie; Ghieste and Dhalaene were united as Ghoere; Medoere, Endier, and Ilien all declared independence from Diemed; and Roesone was carved out of Diemed and Aerenwe. Note that Talinie's current dynasty came to power recently, but Talinie goes back well before the fall of the Empire.

Tony's Painting
We've figured out that Tony's big painting shows Michael Roele in the Battle of Caer Dalton, or Sorrow's Field. When Michael first took the throne, Boeruine revolted and dragged most of the Western Coast with him. The civil war lasted for years. Finally, Boeruine marched on the Imperial City of Anuire, with a horde of goblins as his allies. They overran most of Avanil before Michael met his armies near the town of Dalton, the capital of Avanil. In Tony's painting, you can see Caer Dalton, the castle of the Avans, in the background. Michael's personal guard is fighting their way through the guards of a goblin warlord, whom Michael is personally engaging. Most of Boeruine's army happens to be "off-camera."

[poilbrun]

Thanks!

[Onwen Agelmore]

Can someone post the noble titles of the 12 duchies?

[DanMcSorley]

On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Onwen Agelmore wrote:
> Can someone post the noble titles of the 12 duchies?

Eh? Theoretically, they`re all Dukes. Or do you mean, what do they go by
in 551 MR (`modern` BR times)?

Using the list above, it`s, um:
Avanil: Prince
Boeruine: Archduke
Mhoried: The Mhor
Diemed: Baron
Alamie: Duke, I think
Osoerde: Duke
Aerenwe: Queen
Taeghas: Count, I think
Elinie: Duke
Cariele: ?
Ghieste and Dhalaene: Unified into Ghoere, ruled by a Baron

Any corrections? That`s from my memory, which is distorted by years of
PBEMing.
--
Communication is possible only between equals.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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[DanMcSorley]

On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Onwen Agelmore wrote:
> Can someone post the noble titles of the 12 duchies?

Eh? Theoretically, they`re all Dukes. Or do you mean, what do they go by
in 551 MR (`modern` BR times)?

Using the list above, it`s, um:
Avanil: Prince
Boeruine: Archduke
Mhoried: The Mhor
Diemed: Baron
Alamie: Duke, I think
Osoerde: Duke
Aerenwe: Queen
Taeghas: Count, I think
Elinie: Duke
Cariele: ?
Ghieste and Dhalaene: Unified into Ghoere, ruled by a Baron

Any corrections? That`s from my memory, which is distorted by years of
PBEMing.
--
Communication is possible only between equals.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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[blitzmacher]

On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Onwen Agelmore wrote:
> Can someone post the noble titles of the 12 duchies?

Eh? Theoretically, they`re all Dukes. Or do you mean, what do they go by
in 551 MR (`modern` BR times)?

Using the list above, it`s, um:
Avanil: Prince
Boeruine: Archduke
Mhoried: The Mhor
Diemed: Baron
Alamie: Duke, I think
Osoerde: Duke
Aerenwe: Queen
Taeghas: Count, I think
Elinie: Duke
Cariele: ?
Ghieste and Dhalaene: Unified into Ghoere, ruled by a Baron

Any corrections? That`s from my memory, which is distorted by years of
PBEMing.
--
Communication is possible only between equals.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu


Cariele: Count

[Shade]

At 12:46 PM 2/20/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Onwen Agelmore wrote:
>> Can someone post the noble titles of the 12 duchies?
>
>Eh? Theoretically, they`re all Dukes. Or do you mean, what do they go by
>in 551 MR (`modern` BR times)?
>
>Using the list above, it`s, um:
>Avanil: Prince
>Boeruine: Archduke
>Mhoried: The Mhor
>Diemed: Baron
>Alamie: Duke, I think
>Osoerde: Duke
>Aerenwe: Queen
>Taeghas: Count, I think
>Elinie: Duke
>Cariele: ?
>Ghieste and Dhalaene: Unified into Ghoere, ruled by a Baron
>
>Any corrections? That`s from my memory, which is distorted by years of
>PBEMing.
>--

A lot of this didn`t make sense to me, so I changed it in my campaign. For
instance, where does Liliene Swordwraith get off calling herself a queen?
I`d think the other regents of Anuire would consider it the height of
arrogance for her (or her ancestor) to give herself that title. Why on
earth would the Diem family voluntarily choose to call themselves Barons,
when they know it is a very low title?

IMC Diemed and Aerenwe both go by Duke.

As for Taeghas, I have always assumed that it was a single province in
ancient times (hence County) and expanded over the years.

Also I think Brosengae was supposed to be one of the original 12.

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