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Thread: Well done

  1. #1
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    There should also be some room for a discussion what has been done well in the BRCS. So maybe this is the place.....


    Personally I thank the fine folk of the design team for the lot of work. I really like it.
    I feel slightly sorry that there is no real new invention, only some kind of conversion. (This affects especialy the races and prestige classes). But that seems to be well-made.

    Some small "side track" chapters like the days of a week are great and should also be mentioned.

    Some new artwork from Tony (only a little one) would have been very cool. No time, Tony?
    my purpose is now to lead you into the Pallace where you shall have a clear and delightful view of all those various objects, and scattered excellencies, that lye up and down upon the face of creation, which are only seen by those that go down into the Seas, and by no other....

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    Moo! Are you happy now? Arjan's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Azrai


    There should also be some room for a discussion what has been done well in the BRCS. So maybe this is the place.....


    Personally I thank the fine folk of the design team for the lot of work. I really like it.
    I feel slightly sorry that there is no real new invention, only some kind of conversion. (This affects especialy the races and prestige classes). But that seems to be well-made.

    Some small "side track" chapters like the days of a week are great and should also be mentioned.

    Some new artwork from Tony (only a little one) would have been very cool. No time, Tony?
    I was working on the layout when the "flamewar" started, but here are some excerps from what i have done so far





    Here (below) i combined the 5 humans that are on a card of the boxed set, then gave them a duotone.

    Te audire non possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.

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    I really liked the Forward by Rich Baker. I think that was really nice of him to write something for that. Enjoyed it, and good of the team to include it as well.

    I also liked that there was a good intro section which discussed the history of Cerilia, from the flight from Aduria to the current day. I'm not sure how much of that was taken from the original rules but it's still good to read again.

    I liked how clerics were pretty much kept as specialty priests. That was something I really liked about the 2nd edition game. I liked that there are no Monks!! Moradin having paladins is good as well. I think he is a LG god anyways.

    I liked how the standard races were changed for BR, ie the elves, dwarves and halflings kept their Cerilian feel. The same BR feel seems to be here and I haven't finished the first chapter.

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    I think it was very nice of Mr. Baker to do the Foreword. It would be nice if we were allowed to produce it as a real book and sell it at cost (just for use not for profit).
    Ken 'Ulairi' Johnson
    Associate Editor, IGN Vault Network
    http://rpgvault.ign.com
    http://www.ign.com

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    accasey wrote:

    >This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
    > You can view the entire thread at: http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=1271
    >I liked how clerics were pretty much kept as specialty priests. That was something I really liked about the 2nd edition game.
    >
    Mmmh? I did read it completely different - Priests may choose 2 domains,
    just like all 3E Priests and have access to all spells from the divine
    list. They are not limited to minor or major spheres like the specialty
    priests in 2E. THAT was what I liked, that full-armour, medium-weapon
    beareres could cast not ALL spells, but only all spells from some
    schools, only spells of level 0-3 from minor spheres and none from some
    spheres.

    Or did you only mean that they have to follow a god and not just a cause?

    I personally would have liked to see that 3E Birthright re-introduces
    the concept of specialty priests, e.g.
    that Priests choose 2 domains from a gods list and get the granted
    powers, and can cast all spells from this domains (= major spheres) has
    only access to spells of level 0 - 3 from the other domains of his god
    (= minor spheres) and can cast NO spells from domains that his god does
    not grant... Not just the minor restriction that a cleric with the good
    domain can´t cast spells of the evil domain.

    e.g. Antimagic Field would only be accessible to Clerics who choose the
    Protection Domain
    bye
    M

    > I liked that there are no Monks!! Moradin having paladins is good as well. I think he is a LG god anyways.
    >
    >I liked how the standard races were changed for BR, ie the elves, dwarves and halflings kept their Cerilian feel. The same BR feel seems to be here and I haven`t finished the first chapter.
    >
    >
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    Yes I just meant that they have to follow a specific god.

  7. #7
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    ConjurerDragon - as the domains are set up in 3rd ed they only encompass a single spell of each level above 0. By using your suggestion a cleric would be limited to only casting from a choice of 2 spells of any level above 3rd and only a choice of 4 or 5 (depending on the number of domains the deity has) for 1st thru 3rd and no 0 level spells. Note that not all deities have healing as a domain, so the cure spells would be out.

    I take it that you would rather create a"new" cleric class for every deity with their own spell list. In the 3rd ed system that is the only other option to do something like this.

    As written clerics get to cast from the "cleric" list which would be different than the divine list. I haven't seen a comprehensive divine list, except for divine scrolls in the DMG and that is not a complete list.
    Duane Eggert

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    irdeggman wrote:

    >This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
    > You can view the entire thread at: http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=1271
    >irdeggman wrote:
    > ConjurerDragon - as the domains are set up in 3rd ed they only encompass a single spell of each level above 0. By using your suggestion a cleric would be limited to only casting from a choice of 2 spells of any level above 3rd and only a choice of 4 or 5 (depending on the number of domains the deity has) for 1st thru 3rd and no 0 level spells. Note that not all deities have healing as a domain, so the cure spells would be out.
    >
    Really? I thought the most of the 3E divine spell list was availiable to
    any cleric
    e.g. Bless - Clr. 1
    Here no domain is mentioned, so all Clerics could cast it following my
    suggestion, regardless of what domain they had chosen.
    The restriction would be e.g. with Circle of Doom Clr 5, Destruction 5
    --> Following my suggestion only Clerics with the Destruction Domain
    would be able to cast it.

    The example you mention, Cure spells would look like this:
    Cure Critical Wounds would be available only to Clerics who chose the
    Healing Domain (as it is a 4th level spell)
    Cure Light Wounds would be available to all clerics whose god has the
    Healing Domain, even if the cleric has not chosen the domain (as it is a
    1st level spell)
    Cure Minor Wounds is available to ALL clerics, as it has no domain level
    listed.

    This would not be as restrictive as you understood, as not all divine
    spells have a "domain level" mentioned and thus would not be limited in
    access.

    But it would closely resemble the 2E specialty priests, e.g. the Priest
    of Haelyn who had major access to Combat, but only minor to divination
    (never cast a Detect Lie!) or no access to Creation (never cast the
    "Maintain Armies" Realm spell as only Avani had major access to the
    Creation sphere).

    And it would make sense - as you mention not every god has the "Healing"
    domain in his domain list - why then should his followers have full
    access to healing spells?

    I greatly disliked the fact that Clerics have become full spellcasters
    in 3E. In 2E they had not all spells, limited by access to speheres
    (major, minor, no) and were somewhat of a limited fighter (all armour,
    shield, blunt martial weapons, more hits than a wizard). In 3E they
    retained their combat abilities but suddenly could not only cast ALL
    divine spells, but also got special abilities form 2 domains - something
    comparable a wizard would would only get if he would specialize in a
    school. But then the wizard loses access to another school - why should
    the Cleric gain an advantage without losing something?
    bye
    Michael Romes

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    Creating own spell lists for every class is a very good idea. I did like the sphere restriction in 2nd Edition too (what to the hell wants a priest of Cuiraécen with circle of doom, harm or slay living). Further I think, they still needn't to turn undead...
    May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!

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    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Michael there is no "divine" spell list. When the PHB says clr - that means it is on the cleric spell list. The PHB lists all the locations the spell falls under. Using the cure light wounds spell as an aexample, it is listed as Brd 1, Clr 1, Drd 1, Healing 1, Pal 1 and Rgr 2. This means that it is a 1st level spell on the bard, cleric, druid and paladin spell lists, it is 2nd level spell on the ranger spell list and is a 1st level spell on the Healing Domain list. The lists all work together not exclusively.

    Hence all clerics that can cast a 1st level spell can cast the spell whether or not they have access to the healing domain (or chose it if they had the option). All of the version of cure light wounds are divine spells, except for the bard's version which is arcane. All of the classes are described as either divine or arcane casters.

    To say that if a specific domain is not listed with the spell then it is not available to any cleric that doesn't have the domain is quite contrary to the 3rd ed system of spell casting.

    Which spell list the spell is on is very important since this determines whether or not a member of that class can cast the appropriate spell from a scroll.
    Duane Eggert

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