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Thread: 3e Races

  1. #1
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    One note: Dwarves got their 50% dr versus blunt carried over from 2e. I
    understand that this type of DR is being done away with in 3.5 (the most
    common example is skeletons versus pointy things), but I don`t know the
    new form. It will just be an easy revision.

    Humankind got a variety of `+1 to this skill` and `this other skill is a
    class skill` and `bonus to this save`. It seems to come out to about a
    free feat and a half or two feats at first level, /in addition/ to the
    bonus feat that humans get at first level. I remember it being said you
    were using the FRCS as a model. Is that the way they do this for human
    races? It seems overbalanced to give humanity its traditional benefits,
    plus and extra couple of feats.

    I see that the `bloodline score as ability score` trait has been carried
    over from Doom`s conversion. I detested it then, it was a needless hack
    that complicated the domain system and didn`t add any real benefits to
    play. I`m only 26 pages into this book so I`m going to hold off on really
    ripping into that until later.
    --
    Communication is possible only between equals.
    Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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  2. #2
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    There is already 2 [general] race threads. There a way to combined threads Arjy? Lets use the other one.

    Mike Spehar

  3. #3
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    In my experience players like different and new races. It was a big run on all these new ones when the 3. Edition came out. Most liked were the Celestials, Half Dragons are Lycantrope-templates.

    At least some of this new 3. Edition races should be included in the Birthright edition.

    Ok, there are no Dark elves in Cerilia.

    I would propose the Half Dragon, the Genasis (Half Gennies), Tieflings and Aasimar.
    I know that on Birthright the planetouched matter is special, but I see no reason to exclude outsiders totally.

    I would also propose to use the "shadow template" of the Manual of the Planes" for shadow world beeings.


    Where are the gnomes?
    my purpose is now to lead you into the Pallace where you shall have a clear and delightful view of all those various objects, and scattered excellencies, that lye up and down upon the face of creation, which are only seen by those that go down into the Seas, and by no other....

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    What you are wanting to do is turn Cerilia into Faerun. One of the
    strongest points to Birthright and Cerilia was the fact that there wasn`t a
    god on everycorner, magic items stores in each city. You didn`t have Drow,
    Half Dragons, Half Giants, Muls, Tielfings etc and it didn`t matter.

    Cerilia has its own unique setting. There is no reason to attempt to make
    it into FR part 2, the Cerilia continent.

    -Anakin
    *Sick, Tired and Exhausted*
    *Hater of Realms and all things Drow*

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Azrai" <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
    To: <BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
    Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 11:25 AM
    Subject: Re: 3e Races [36#1255]


    > This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
    > You can view the entire thread at:
    http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=1255
    >
    > Azrai wrote:
    > In my experience players like different and new races. It was a big run
    on all these new ones when the 3. Edition came out. Most liked were the
    Celestials, Half Dragons are Lycantrope-templates.
    >
    > At least some of this new 3. Edition races should be included in the
    Birthright edition.
    >
    > Ok, there are no Dark elves in Cerilia.
    >
    > I would propose the Half Dragon, the Genasis (Half Gennies), Tieflings and
    Aasimar.
    > I know that on Birthright the planetouched matter is special, but I see no
    reason to exclude outsiders totally.
    >
    > I would also propose to use the "shadow template" of the Manual of the
    Planes" for shadow world beeings.
    >
    >
    > Where are the gnomes?
    >
    >
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    Who are you to speak to me of loneliness, you who have not suffered as I have suffered. My father was lord of the Andu, ruler of a million souls, but not once did he ever claim me as his son. All those years I waited for a single word from him, a simple acknowledgment of my birthright. But, not even on his death bed did he claim me as his. So do not speak to me of your loneliness, you who have never been as alone as I have been all my life.

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  5. #5
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    Azrai wrote:

    >This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
    > You can view the entire thread at: http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=1255
    >
    > Azrai wrote:
    > In my experience players like different and new races. It was a big run on all these new ones when the 3. Edition came out. Most liked were the Celestials, Half Dragons are Lycantrope-templates.
    >
    >At least some of this new 3. Edition races should be included in the Birthright edition.
    >
    >Ok, there are no Dark elves in Cerilia.
    >
    >I would propose the Half Dragon, the Genasis (Half Gennies), Tieflings and Aasimar.
    >
    >
    HALF DRAGONS ?
    There are maybe a dozen dragons left on Cerilia and as far as I`ve seen
    the one mentioned in Ed Starks article
    in dragon "Fire in the peaks" (or similar) describes the youngest on
    them and he is about 1500 years i.e. great
    wyrm... Where then the reputed half dragons should come from is beyond
    me, and the same goes for theiflings and aasimars, they are demons and
    angels, something which has never been very popular with BR. The
    designers even mentioned somewhere that you can`t planeshift to BR and
    outsiders are always rare and always with a special history behind them...
    But sure if you want them in your campaign go ahead, but I really don`t
    see what that has to do in a BR book...

    >I know that on Birthright the planetouched matter is special, but I see no reason to exclude outsiders totally.
    >
    >I would also propose to use the "shadow template" of the Manual of the Planes" for shadow world beeings.
    >
    >
    Not having seen the ahadow template I don`t know, but at least this
    sounds a lot better...

    >
    >Where are the gnomes?
    >
    >
    >
    Sindre

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  6. #6
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    As far as the shadow template from the manual of the planes (and templates from other books) the development team made a conscious decision to only use the core books (PHB, DMG and MM) for direct reference. This was for several reasons, one being the OGL, another is their availability world wide. Many people in different countries can't afford all the books, what is the mark in Australia Ian - about double the cost?

    There are many things in other books that would be useful and should be incorporated, at least on a personal campaign level, but due to the the reasons mentioned weren't.

    The exceptions were the list of prestige classes and monsters, these were included because they were just lists and didn't automatically make them appear in anyone's campaign. Imagine the consternation that would cause a DM (and of course a player who wanted it) if the BRCS core rules talked about the shadow template (other than a list) if they didn't have a copy of the manual of the planes. Note that only the generic products were used as sources for prestige classes - a direct import of another campaigns prestige classes is asking for trouble. They are supposed to be uniquely created for that campaign setting.
    Duane Eggert

  7. #7
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    I don`t buy the backward conversion to feats as the best way to measure
    balance. Looking instead at other campaign settings, the BRCS actually
    seems pretty mild. The PHB provides a blank slate of the races, adding
    things like "Brecht have a business sense" means adding that sense (in the
    form of bonus class skills) will be in addition to the blank slate provided
    in the PHB. Other CS` do the same, and some provide much more in the way of
    cultural backround knowledge. Were I to find fault with the racial balance
    of the BRCS (and I`m not saying there is a problem), I`d be more inclined to
    add a few skill bonuses to starting non-human characters. The blank slate
    dwarves have stonecunning, what do Cerilian dwarves also know? It may well
    be that we have more knowledge about human culture, because its better
    developed than the non-human cultures. If someone said that Sidhe get a
    cultural bonus to Wilderness Lore would that be hard to believe?

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  8. #8
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    Originally posted by irdeggman
    another is their availability world wide. Many people in different countries can't afford all the books, what is the mark in Australia Ian - about double the cost?
    Roughly double the cost. A book that costs $40 in the US will cost $80 in Australia. The core rulebooks were originally $40 each, although that price has now increased. And remember, Australia is a fairly rich country and these things go. In other countries in the world, people may not have the money to buy anything more than the core rulebooks.

    By sourcing the BRCS only from rules in the core rulebooks, we ensure that they are accessable to everyone (as the core rules can be downloaded for free anyway). This is more important than referencing every product released in the past 2 1/2 years.
    Let me claim your Birthright!!

  9. #9
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    Originally posted by AnakinMiller
    What you are wanting to do is turn Cerilia into Faerun
    New races won't change the flair of the setting, because they are already THERE. The half-fiend for example is listed in the 3Ed.BRCS under Cleric, Hand of Azrai.

    It's only that new races and new classes make fun and add a lot to the game.

    The genasi would fit perfect to a kinashi campaign, the half-orog is also an idea.

    I would also like some prestige classes (ok, you said, some will follow in the atlas). But I think, classes like Assasin, Loremaster, Blackguard are now core and standard D&D and should also be reviewed. What about some priest prestige classes?
    my purpose is now to lead you into the Pallace where you shall have a clear and delightful view of all those various objects, and scattered excellencies, that lye up and down upon the face of creation, which are only seen by those that go down into the Seas, and by no other....

  10. #10
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Azrai
    New races won't change the flair of the setting, because they are already THERE. The half-fiend for example is listed in the 3Ed.BRCS under Cleric, Hand of Azrai.

    It's only that new races and new classes make fun and add a lot to the game.

    The genasi would fit perfect to a kinashi campaign, the half-orog is also an idea.

    I would also like some prestige classes (ok, you said, some will follow in the atlas). But I think, classes like Assasin, Loremaster, Blackguard are now core and standard D&D and should also be reviewed. What about some priest prestige classes?
    The Hand of Azrai is an exception, not the rule. She is a powerful and mysterious being and making her half-fiend helps to cerment this. If there were other half-fiend beings around then this would undermine her character, make her just one of the crowd instead of a unique and powerful being.

    The genasi do not fit in the campaign because there is no reason to support their presence. Just because they have a culture similar to the Khinasi does not mean they should exist there. They are supposed to be a cross between genies and humans (am I right here?) so where are the genies? In his initial design work for Aduria Rich Baker set aside a region of that continent for a persia with genies type culture, so put the genasi there if you want. That way a couple may have travelled the 2,000 or so miles north to Cerilia and appear as rare and mysterious visitors from the south.

    The half-orog is just a half-orc under another name, and as there is little mixing between the orog and human cultures (compared to orc/humans in other worlds) then the presence of this hybrid is not justified.

    The Atlas will contain a large section on prestige classes. The Atlas focuses more on the background of the races, faiths and realms of Cerilia, so prestige classes linked to those organisations would be better placed there. We will certainly attempt to have the majority of prestige classes presented in the first release of the Atlas if possible. If you wish to write up some prestige classes, races, etc yourself and release them to the BR community we would love to see them and perhaps even include them in the Atlas.
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