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  1. #1
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    What`s the qualitative difference between law, guild, and temple holdings?
    Aside from realm spells, which is a whole different kettle of fish, two
    generate RP and GB income, one generates RP and lets you claim (nee tax)
    GB from other holdings.

    Law holdings represent government; taxation is traditionally a flat fee
    (bridge tolls), or a percentage of your possessions` values, or a
    percentage of your income (modernly).

    Churches made money in the middle ages by collecting a percentage of
    income (the tithe) and by selling knicknacks and relicky bits to tourists.

    Guilds made money by buying low and selling high. :)

    There`s a lot of overlap in those three areas. Certainly the internal
    mechanics of all of them would be similar, all would have functionaries
    and clerks to keep track of income and expenses, and administer internal
    rules, but sometimes the clerks wear holy symbols and sometimes they
    operate in the name of the king. Sometimes the rules are called
    `scripture` and sometimes `legal code` and sometimes `guild law`.

    If you think of Talinie or Medoere, what`s the difference between the law
    and the temple there? Religious law and secular law are administered by
    the same body in a theocracy. The income of both goes into the same pot.
    Similar thoughts can apply to Endier, or to Cariele, where the guilders
    pretty much run things as they see good for business.

    There`s good flavor value in differentiating between guilds and temples
    and constables, but mechanically it would be interesting to see them
    combined as just general `holdings`.

    You`d need to extend the GB collection charts beyond `level 10 holding in
    a level 10 province`, obviously, up to a 30 or 40 in a 10, if you wanted
    to keep the present system mostly intact. With the combination of
    holdings, you might need to adjust maintenance to balance again, since
    Talinie would suddenly have about 2/3 the number of holdings they used to,
    for example. Might be easier to work that into the income chart as less
    efficiency at higher levels.

    I think you could dispose of the old system entirely. Need to think about
    this.

    Leave province ranking the same. 0 to 10.

    Total possible holdings in the province = provlevel squared. All temples,
    guilds, and law holdings come out of this pool. I haven`t puzzled out
    sources yet, they`re too disjoint to the system.

    Get rid of the notion of `province ruler`- the one with the highest
    holding levels is the one with the most authority. So the Chamberlain in
    the Imperial City might have a 10 (old province level) + his law holding +
    5 or 10 for good measure, under this method, so maybe 20. Avan, Boeruine,
    and Diemed might have 10 or so each, the City is closely contested.

    Now you have room to give the Wizard College, many more temples, and
    several minor guilds, and maybe old imperial institutions like the
    Imperial Court or the Imperial Senate (or whatever) small holdings in the
    city, which would have been at best holdings (0) under the original
    system. Lots of minor counts, earls, baronets, abbeys, unions and guilds
    can now appear on the domain level screen.

    Trade routes can be done away with, and the guilders just rule their
    guilds up higher. Seems simpler that way.

    A `temple` would just be a holding devoted to a god (obviously), and it
    would make money and RP the way it used to. I`d have a separate asset, a
    cathedral or something, which would have to be built to cast realm spells,
    rather like the rules on fortifying a holding now- the level a temple
    holding is cathedralled to (I verbed it) is the level used to cast realm
    spells.

    You`d probably have to inflate the income table, so not every holding 1 in
    a province 10 was getting d3 GB/turn like they do now. That kind of ties
    in with my ideas about province production/surplus, but I need a nap
    before the Fiesta Bowl so I`ll post on that later.
    --
    Communication is possible only between equals.
    Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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  2. #2
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    > If you think of Talinie or Medoere, what`s the difference between the law
    > and the temple there? Religious law and secular law are administered by
    > the same body in a theocracy. The income of both goes into the same pot.
    > Similar thoughts can apply to Endier, or to Cariele, where the guilders
    > pretty much run things as they see good for business.
    >
    > There`s good flavor value in differentiating between guilds and temples
    > and constables, but mechanically it would be interesting to see them
    > combined as just general `holdings`.

    I was considering redesigning the domain rules centered around a similiar
    holding structure to what already exists, but making the holdings more
    abstract (instead of generic). Since temples and guilds, for example, both
    collect GB, then both a `temple regent` and a `guild regent` both have
    "Economic Holdings". All the economic holdings do is collect GB, but using
    the specialized holding mechanic that was discussed here along time ago,
    different Economic Holdings can be differentiated, so that one regent may
    have a Level 4 Economic (Shipping), another might have Level 4 Economic
    (taxation), and another might have an unspecialized level 5 Economic
    holding. Unless you specialize, however, economic holdings do nothing else
    other than collect GB (and maybe RP -- I don`t really have RP in my system
    yet).

    The other holdings I`m considering are Administrative, Magical, Military,
    and Social holdings (theaters, temples, libraries, etc.). All of these have
    specialized variants, and because they all have specialized functions, there
    isn`t so much overlap. The idea of the "guild regent" is kinda` gone, since
    a "guilder" is going to have a lot of Economic holding, but he`s also going
    to need some Social and Administrative holdings as well since he can`t
    really run a domain without those functions.

    The system isn`t ready yet, so I don`t have many details on how I`m going to
    go. I`m simply suggesting that a series of highly specialized holdings
    might be a better way to get rid of some of the annoying overlap than a
    system of generic holdings.

    > A `temple` would just be a holding devoted to a god (obviously), and it
    > would make money and RP the way it used to. I`d have a separate asset, a
    > cathedral or something, which would have to be built to cast realm spells,
    > rather like the rules on fortifying a holding now- the level a temple
    > holding is cathedralled to (I verbed it) is the level used to cast realm
    > spells.

    The specialized holding concept works just like this, as I use it. Except,
    that you`re basically sacrificing levels for the "cathedral" effect, rather
    than "fortifying" it. So a specialized holding is going to be more useful
    than a non-specialized holding, but it`s generally going to be lower level
    (assuming the same resources are spent in both examples).

    -Lord Rahvin

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