Birthright "demihuman" Races:

[RaspK_FOG]

I am referring to the revised 1st chapter... I know, I am rather late in making such a suggestion, but as they say "better late than never".

[Ming I]

Ah, that explains everything. ;P

The version of the Sidhelien that is given in the revised Chapter 1 requires no level adjustment.

[RaspK_FOG]

Let me make this clear:

The revised 1st Chapter presents us with a non-adjusted Sidhelien without too many abilities. However, many people have presented various elves that are far more powerful and received one kind of feedback or another, but always got a level adjustment.

The point is, whether or not you like the idea of running a poll to include a variant in which Sidhelien are pushed up a little for an appropriate level adjustment.

[kgauck]

> The point is, whether or not you like the idea of running a poll

> to include a variant in which Sidhelien are pushed up a little for

> an appropriate level adjustment.



Actually, I am tempted to suggest an elf class. This would allow an ECL 0

elf with the possibility of getting some serious elf going in a 3 level

class providing more and more elfin might.



Kenneth Gauck

kgauck@mchsi.com

[geeman]

At 02:30 AM 3/23/2004 -0600, Kenneth Gauck wrote:



>I am tempted to suggest an elf class. This would allow an ECL 0 elf with

>the possibility of getting some serious elf going in a 3 level class

>providing more and more elfin might.



I`ve written up racial levels up to 6th for the various Cerilian

humans. Using racial levels for the Sidhe is a bit trickier in that they

aren`t as simple as standard D&D elves which, after all, use a pretty basic

template--the same might be said for orogs. I`ll fiddle around with it in

the next couple of days and post something (or just send the file to Arjan

and ask him to put it up in the BR.net download section.)



Gary

[irdeggman]

Gary,
Have you checked out the Savage Progressions thread at the Wizards site?

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a

They have basically been creating class levels for the ECL templated monsters in the monster manual and have just added the ECL races from the DMG (e.g., drow).

6 levels for humans seems a bit much to me, just off the cuff.

The big thing about making variants for the demi-human (and possible human) races in BR is exactly what should be included? Once those things are 'decided', determining a level adjustment is made a little easier and then the process should be to create racial levels (which function like class levels), which is now the standard at WotC. Well, that is my opinion anyway.

Unfortuneately the present poll system isn't conducive to use a weighted type of format or for making multiple choices to determine which abilities/traits people want in Cerilian elves or other races for that matter.

[geeman]

At 12:09 PM 3/23/2004 +0100, irdeggman wrote:



>Gary,

> Have you checked out the Savage Progressions thread at the Wizards site?

>

>

>http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a

>

> They have basically been creating class levels for the ECL templated

> monsters in the monster manual and have just added the ECL races from the

> DMG (e.g., drow).



I hadn`t seen that. Thanks for the link... very interesting. SS for 1-3

ECL races. Monte Cook`s racial level stuff is an extension of SS,

really. SS allows characters to take levels in various classes while MC`s

racial levels allows them to take levels in classes beyond what the ECL of

that template would be--in the case of the racial levels beyond 0.



> 6 levels for humans seems a bit much to, just off the cuff.



Yeah, I wrote 6 levels up mostly an experiment to see how it might

work. The racial classes that Monte Cook wrote up only went to 3 levels,

but I thought I`d double that just to see what happened. Essentially, I

don`t think it`s all that different. I mean, if one buys into being a 3rd

level human than being a 6th level human isn`t that much more of a

leap. Since most of the racial levels mimic a character class in most ways

the idea can be viewed as a 3e/3.5/SS version of the original D&D system in

which characters leveled up as elves (or fighters, magic users, etc.)



> The big thing about making variants for the demi-human (and possible

> human) races in BR is exactly what should be included? Once those things

> are `decided`, determining a level adjustment is made a little easier and

> then the process should be to create racial levels (which function like

> class levels), which is now the standard at WotC. Well, that is my

> opinion anyway.



You`re right. Some of them are pretty obvious, though. Elves are

inherently magical, so that race should get +1 spellcaster level in

addition to the occasional magical ability (Pass Without Trace.) For the

most part, one can pick appropriate skills or feats for most of the human

races and that seems to make sense.



>Unfortuneately the present poll system isn`t conducive to use a weighted

>type of format or for making multiple choices to determine which

>abilities/traits people want in Cerilian elves or other races for that matter.



Well, we`ll just have to do it the old fashioned way then and hack it all

out in email.... ;)



Gary

[Osprey]

A smoother-fitting racial level format for the Sidhelien would, IMO, be based on using most or all of the current racial abilities presented in Ch. 1 being a 0-level elf. That way, any game could use the basic elf, while "more elven" elves could have additional racial levels that incorporate extended features of the race. This allows for a seamless variant rather than one that requires rearrangement of the basic rule system. A few possibilities/suggestions for level 1-3 for the Sidhelien (some of these referring to previous ideas onother threads), in no particular order at the moment:

1. Negation of (-2) ability penalties, such as for Constitution and maybe Strength

2. +2 Intelligence ("big thinking" of an immortal race), maybe +2 Wisdom (highly perceptive of their surroundings, difficult to mentally subvert/penetrate, inscrutable)

3. Racial levels stacking with existing arcane caster levels, perhaps as described in the Scions of Vorynn variant I presented earlier if this needs to be "not too powerful"(adds to spell potency/penetration, not to spells per day or spells known).

4. Slow Regeneration (hp per hour) in high-source areas, as first presented in "A Variant for the Sidhe". At higher elf levels, this could become Fast Healing or Fast Regeneration in source-rich areas (hp per round). I'm still a big fan of this idea, as it is "flavour rich" and distinctly non-human in a way that is directly tied to the mebhaighal - a theme that would do well to be emphasized on a personal level for the Sidhelien.

5. Druid/ranger-like special abilities, such as Gary mentioned (Pass without Trace, Woodland Stride, Trackless Step, etc.) - which ones would come at what levels (0-3) is still up for debate.

6. Good skill points, strong Will and Reflex saves???


Problems here are as ever...too much is appropriate for our immortals...because in reality, life isn't fair, and one-on-one the Sidhe would just be better at most things...least that's my opinion. IMC, the SIdhe just have a lot of high-level characters around - period. They just don't have large populations.

But maybe some of the above things could still be picked and chosen from to make a D&D-compatible "balanced" class.

Osprey