Treasure suggestions in a lower-magic campaign

[Osprey]

While I don't use a low-powered system in general, a lot of my PCs' big XP awards come through high-level domain achievements.

My adventures focus more on a few major encounters (often very deadly ones) rather than lots of little ones. I find it a waste of my and my players' time to do the "10 encounters at CR x is enough to level up the group of 4 adventurers."

Taking the real time to play out 10-20 encounters for a single adventure is just way too boring for my tastes. That's pure hack and slash. I'm much more a fan of focusing ona few major encounters that are worth a detailed play-through, and as such giving the normal XP awards has NEVER seemed to generous for the significant accomplishment of beating a really tough encounter.

Where the xp awards pile up to fast, by the book, is doing the 10-20 encounters per adventure, wherein the PC's are rarely all that threatened, but the smaller xp awards just keep accumulating until by the end the DM is like, "Wow, that's 18,000 xp apiece. Gee, maybe these xp awards are too big..."

If xo awards are broken down and handed out once per game session or at the end of major encounters, they don't seem so high anymore.

[Magian]

It would only be a hack and slash style of play if the game was focused on characters gaining levels at a normal game rate. It only becomes boring if the character leveling becomes the focus of the players.

Yes I agree with your assessment that if someone wanted to maintain the pace of leveling up it would just add to the encounter sessions. But isn't it obvious this system is setup in a way to not maintain this rapid pace?

Maybe it is a cardinal sin to go against the idea that characters my not level up during an adventure or several times in one adventure as the book setup allows. Character development needn't always be in character aquisitions of levels and new abilities.

If a DM uses the book system for awards and the pace of character leveling, then it calls into question the justification for the levels of character like the Gorgon, Rhoubhe, and such that have been around for centuries. If in one lifetime or less or even a few published adventures a character can achieve epic level, then it seems to me that the said characters of near immortal status should have much higher levels than they do. Therefore I find that there is a problem with a award system for a Birthright game.

The adventure game of D&D is not very compatible to a setting like Birthright in my opinion. On the other hand it does seem to work well with Forgotten Realms where the inn keeper is a retired epic character and his wife is a former archmage and the patrons are all former heroes of yester year. This system does not increase the encounters for a campaign, rather it lowers the amount of reward for them. Thus levels of a character are not cheap to come by. It turns into months and years before they see a new level rather than one adventure.

I understand the big problem with this is a change of pace for players and not all groups want to use it. That is fine I don't blame them, it may not be their style of play. But I do not think it fair to jump to a conclusion that it is "pure hack and slash" thereby it being a focus on game mechanics. Rather it provides for less of a focus on character level for ability and makes adventures not worth as much or rewarding weighed against their risks. Nor is it purely low-powered, because I will run characters who achieve epic levels to continue and do what they want rather than retire them like most campaigns. In fact my campaign takes epic to another level than others on the power scale. It is just a slower paced game system to use.

[Osprey]

I understand the big problem with this is a change of pace for players and not all groups want to use it. That is fine I don't blame them, it may not be their style of play. But I do not think it fair to jump to a conclusion that it is "pure hack and slash" thereby it being a focus on game mechanics.

I believe I was referring to the DMG's standard system of XP awards and what they're based on when discussing the 20 encounters per adventure thing. My complaint is more about that than your system, which I consider simply another DM's preference for game pace. To each his own, good man, to each his own.

The main problem I have with such a slow pace of advancement is more one of "How much real time do you have to run your campaign? How far, in that time, would you like your characters to advance?"

See, I love a game that starts low and progresses through to epic levels. And has an epic storyline and destiny for the PC's tied in. What can I say, I'm a Tolkienite at heart I guess.

However, in all my 20 or so years of DM/GMing, I've never run a continuous campaign that has lasted more than 2 years of real time. People move, change jobs and schedules, or simply shift priorities...I have yet to see a game (though I'm sure they're out there) that meets regularly (weekely at least) for very many years consecutively. And that's what would be necessary to start at low levels and run through to epic levels with dramatically slowed XP progression. If you and you're ultra-dedicated players have the time and commitment for such a venture, well - more power to you, you're the lucky (or crazy?) few. ;)

Me, I take what I can get, and if that amounts to a regular commitment from a group for several years runnning (my current BR game has met weekly for most of a year and a half now, and the first PC just hit 21st level; and this without slowed XP awards AND with fairly generous domain-level XP awards). In-game, it's been about 8 years (started in 551, it's now the start of 559).

Still rather fast in terms of realism and believability, and I definitely take your point about using the Gorgon and Rhuobhe anf the elves in general as references. However, consider how difficult it would become to find a high enough CR to earn XP as a 30th level character in the BR world...friggin tough, I'd say. Damn near impossible. Yet there's the Gorgon, who's made it to what? 35th level or so? That IS impressive in my book, even at full awards using the CR system. Because honestly, what really IS challenging to the Gorgon anymore? He's probably been constructing his own challenges for many centuries now, just to keep himself entertained. :P

Also, D&D doesn't much deal with the issue of stagnation and loss of XP from such, but I bet if there were more mechanics for immortals this would be a very real issue for them. Do you really think someone could live for thousands of years and somehow just keep improving without losing a good deal of their earlier learning and training? These are the things you just forget after five or more centuries of neglect - while some of it becomes ingrained and instinctual, a lot would also be too specialized or unused in most of a character's life, and likely slip away...

The fact that the Gorgon IS so high a level to me represents that he is unusually dedicated and relentless in his pursuit of self-empowerment. It's the only way 30+ levels can be justified in the CR system, as I see it. What do you think?

Osprey

[Magian]

Atrophy is something that is left out of the D&D game rules and this is a problem that I also have considered. I am unsure of how it would be affected by the various creatures in the BR world. That is to say, would elves suffer from it or the blooded and what of other mystical and magical creatures not of mere natural origins like humans. If we were to follow up on this further I suggest another thread so as not to further detract from this one.

You have a point about the "standard" CR system and the high level characters gaining new levels in the setting of Cerilia. Using the settng and the rules alone would not produce much for such characters aside from wiping eachother out. This begs the question, and then what? With self preservation on the minds of these individuals it seems highly unlikely for any such thing to occur, thus remains the problem.

In a case like this I would appeal to not using only combat encounters for the CR system if one wants these types of characters to progress in levels. However even if one of these characters devised a plot that meets a sufficient CR to merit decent exp awards, then most likely the problem of plucking the tree dry again occurs. The grandness of such a scheme would likely change much of the setting and Cerilia is not so grand of size and scope.

Yet if we consider the scale of influece of the Gorgon wouldn't slight increases alone merit some exp awards in the face of maintaining what he already now has? Isn't that justifyably challenge enough? Not merely taking the single action of success but the entire scope of his efforts to justify it?