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  1. #1
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    Ok, let me get things from the beginning.

    Laera Boeruine, granddaughter of Aeric, is in love with the Swordmage. The Paladin king of Elinie, has been causing some troubles for Boeruine, so the evil Enchantress decides to cause some trouble for him. She devises a very nasty plot to make him lose his paladinhood.

    The Swordmage provides to her the instrument. A magician of good alignment, who is what one would call the innocent. He brings him to her in a comatose condition. She casts on the comatose man a Feeblemind spell. The next day, the man is a moronic child. She then casts on him a Domination spell. The Swordmage enters Elinie to cause a bit chaos and in the process have Vlad, the dominated man, arrested by Elinie guards. At that time, Laera and a trusted magician both cast a Dream spell, one to the duke of Elinie and one to his high priest.

    In the dream they say that the man in the dungeon is evil and that the duke has to kill him to purge his evil and other stuff like that. They appear in the Dream dressed in illusions pretending to be Haelyn himself.

    The temples of Elinie do not believe the Dream so it is decided that the paladin duke will not act. On the contrary, to be on the safe side, they execute the man. However that is only the first step to the Interrogation. An array of spells is then to determine what was behind the dominated man.

    A speak with dead, a raise dead, and some memory accessing from an Avanalae priestess.

    The questions are many and mindboggling. We are bringing this here before our DM even reads it, since I (being Laera) feel a bit sorry for the heart attack I am going to cause him.

    1) Does the Feeblemind introduce a new mind to dominate the body of Vlad, that of a moronic child, or does Vlad become a moronic child? If the victim is healed by a Heal or Wish, would he have recollection of what happened or would it all be part of the memories of the moronic child? And if it was part of the moronic child, is it still in his head and thus accessible by thought sphere spells or not at all?

    2) If Vlad is a moronic child, to what extent can the Dominate spell have an effect? The spell allows the caster to give commands. A simple command like shut up and stay put would be obeyed and a complex would not be? Or does the caster gain full control of the actual body of the caster? And if he gets a mental link, is that link absorbing the victim's memories? In other words, would he have recollection of anything that happened after the spell is lifted?

    3) Would the Feeblemind and the Domination be lifted after Vlad is raised from the dead? If his body is dominated by another psyche, that of the moronic child, does that psyche also come back? Does death have an effect similar to the Wish or Heal spell in the feebleminded individual?

    4) When the priests attempt to speak with dead who answers? Vlad? Dominated Vlad? Moronic Vlad?


    Please share your knowledge with us, reply to the questions, make comments, debate and ask your questions. I deeply appreciate any help anyone can provide. (yes, this has actually happened and it is not a theoretic question)

  2. #2
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    > A_dark wrote:
    > Ok, let me get things from the beginning.

    > The temples of Elinie do not believe the Dream so it is decided that
    > the paladin duke will not act. On the contrary, to be on the safe
    > side, they execute the man.

    Not only does this sound contrary to their decision, it seems
    very out of character for them. Besides, wouldn`t a paladin or even a
    priest *know* if the person in the dungeon is evil (either by natural
    ability or spell)? Has this execution already happened? This scenario
    seems a bit on the extreme side of "shoot first and ask questions later."


    > The questions are many and mindboggling. We are bringing this here
    > before our DM even reads it, since I (being Laera) feel a bit sorry
    > for the heart attack I am going to cause him.

    How much of this situation has already happened? From my
    reading, it seems like you`ve already decided what is going to happen and
    you`ll be letting your DM in on the end results. It that correct? If
    so, and from the way I read the post, it doesn`t seem like your DM has
    much say in the campaign. I know that I for one would not have allowed
    half the things to happen the way you presented them, but again, I may be
    reading your post wrong.
    If I am reading this wrong -and I hope that I am- perhaps you
    could clarify on a) what has happened, B) what you`re hoping will happen,
    and c) your questions.
    If everything you`ve posted has already happened, then I`m
    guessing a) your DM is allowing you run-of-the-mill and you won`t have to
    worry about anything, or B) if your DM notices the inconsistencies and
    the ease of which you got away with this, he will allow the NPCs to have
    the same reign upon you and your domain.


    Take care,
    Kirby

    "How many boards would the Mongols hoard if the Mongol Horde got bored?"
    - Calvin & Hobbes.

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  3. #3
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    Hm, ok, let me see, if I can clarify a bit. In the Dream the man appearing as Haelyn said that the prisoner is a scion of Azrai and for that he should die. However unbeknownst to laera, the priest of Elinie was also a scion of Azrai. So he felt that if Haelyn knows about Vlad's blood and deems that this is wrong, same would be said for himself, but since Haelyn was telling him that he trusts him and all that champion talk, the priest saw that there was a very big contradiction and did not believe the Dream was from Haelyn.

    Up to the execution and the raise dead all else has happened. Laera has cast the spells on Vlad. He has been arrested and it has been decided that he will be executed and then raised to be asked the questions. It is indeed a "shoot first ask later" but that is because the people of Elinie actually fear that their lives are in danger (hehe, one of the things they fear is that Vlad will explode and kill lots of people)

    In the Dreams, the Duke of Elinie is asked to kill the man himself. The temple regent will kill him instead.

    A paladin can detect evil intentions not evil. The priest I suppose could indeed detect evil, but it seems that they did not think about it, or did not do it for some reason. I will ask the priest regent to come here and tell you :)

    Finally, we are all PCs, since it is part of a PBEM :) Me, the Swordmage, the Duke of Elinie and the priest regent, we are all PCs.

  4. #4
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    I am said priest of Haelyn, of Haelyn's Aegis.

    I have blood derivation Azrai, as said by Laera character. Basically what was outlined does sum up the situation.

    What we have done:
    The Patriarch of Elinie and I, the head of the church of Elinie, talked. We both agreed the dream was not real. For different reasons [he does not know I have derivation Azrai].

    Firstly, paladins are not often visited by dreams of Haelyn, and second he has been sent many dreams that have been proven false. It was specified in the dream that the Patriarch was to use his 'blessed' sword--the sword is not blessed. I agreed with him, without telling him why I thought it was not accurate...

    I agreed to dispose of the criminal, telling the Patriarch he would have to have nothing to do with the whole sordid affair. My 'inquisitioner' would deal with the mage-criminal.

    I contacted another character, who agreed to help. Suffice to say, he can supply a level 11 cleric [uplift spell, and two clerics] he can also supply at least 1 level 10-11 Wizard. I am a cleric, so I can cast Zone of Truth. Everything that was described as being done by my group is reasonably accurate. We have however, not done it yet. I asked the DM, and he said he would resolve it after the turn process was done.

    I do intend to shoot and then act later, :P I am also under the effects of bloodform and am not LG, contrary to the opinion of some people. ;)

    About the detect evil -- I intend to bloodtheft the person. I don't really care if he is evil. It says no where that a priest of Haelyn cannot be evil. I did consider it, but basically desided that there would be no point. Even if he was shown good, I would have argued that there is a spell creating this effect, or he has an ability to mask his alignment. [white sound, etc...]
    In Haelyn... do we trust?

  5. #5
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    I have the funny feeling I know which campaign this is in.

  6. #6
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    Looks like it's gonna be an interesting Anuire Argus...

    From previous rulings in the said PBeM, it'll be probable but with alignment checks for all.

    Of course, priests of Haelyn can be LE according to the BoP. The main thing is that they are Lawful.

    If you wish to join in similar levels of plotting in a PBeM, then PM me and I'll send you the URL.

    Dan (player of a certain southern Anuirian guildmaster in a certain PBeM)

  7. #7
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    Ok let's get this straight. How do we find out if that was a misprint? How could a lawful good God/person allow any evil to worship him? I don't think that is possible. Am I the only one who thinks this? I know this should go over to book of days but it is in this thread.
    Abbess Allessandra
    from the United Provinces of Haelyn
    "On your knees...to pray!"

  8. #8
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    The BR setting is capable of both epic struggles on the Good-Evil axis as
    well as the Law-Chaos axis. If the central struggle of the campaign is
    Law-Chaos, then Haelyn`s real concern would be the chaotics, not the evil
    characters. Such a campaign in Anuire would focus on the disorder of the
    Empire, rather than the abominations.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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  9. #9
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    Why would there be a concentration on just one axis? Wouldn't there be a concern about chaos and evil?
    Lord Eldred
    High Councilor of the
    United Provinces of Cerilia
    "May Haelyn bring justice to your realm"

  10. #10
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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
    Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 8:35 PM


    > Lord Eldred wrote:
    > Why would there be a concentration on just one axis? Wouldn`t there
    > be a concern about chaos and evil?

    Because they might very well be neutral with regard to one axis. A group of
    players generally won`t be all the same alignment, nor will they be random
    alingments. They will be more likely to agree about the importance of one
    kind of axis.

    Campaigns that focus on the good-evil axis will rely in part on the
    abominations, on the Shadow World, and as such tend to emphisize the
    fantastic. A campaign in BR that focuses on order vs disorder would tend to
    be a human oriented political game based on realms cooperating for the
    purpose of extending their dominion. While a campaign could do both
    equally, its certainly not neccesary.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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