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Thread: Forgesmith

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    Hello. After looking at several published prestige classes, i have come up with my

    own prestige class. I was wondering what others thought of it, since i don`t have any

    guidelines for creating classes.

    thanks



    Mokar`s Forgesmith



    [God of smiths, crafting, both Dwarves and Humans]



    text file attached





    Prerequisites: ability to cast second level arcane spells

    ability to cast second level divine spells

    knowledge- arcane 8 ranks

    knowledge- religion 3 ranks

    craft alchemy 10

    craft [transformative type] 5 ranks

    craft [transformative type] 5 ranks

    three item creation feats

    Skill points: 4 plus intelligence bonus per level

    Class Skills:

    Appraise, concentration, craft, disable device, knowledge [all], profession, spellcraft

    Class Features:

    level BAB Fort Ref Will

    1 +0 +2 +0 +2 Metallurgical expertise, school sacrifice, 2 low level mysteries

    2 +1 +3 +0 +3 Fortify item, +1 caster level

    3 +1 +3 +1 +3 Fast crafting, +1 caster level

    4 +2 +4 +1 +4 1 mystery, +1 caster level

    5 +2 +4 +1 +4 2 mysteries

    6 +3 +5 +2 +5 1 mystery, +1 caster level

    7 +3 +5 +2 +5 Extra transmutation, +1 caster level

    8 +4 +6 +2 +6 1 mystery, +1 caster level

    9 +4 +6 +3 +6 2 mysteries

    10 +5 +7 +3 +7 Extra transmutation, +1 caster level



    Feature Descriptions:

    1 Metallurgic Expertise: adept at preparing metal used in crafting, alchemy DC 15 to prepare enough

    metal, d3 days, +5 to crafting check

    1 School Sacrifice: -1DC to all spells from 1 school of choice, -1 chance of dispelling that school

    2 Fortify Item: increases hardness by 1 of a single medium size or smaller object, 1/day

    3 Fast Crafting: produce more value from a single day of effort, 1 day/1500gp

    7, 10 Extra Transmutation: gain extra transmutation spell at any level able to cast



    Mysteries: [Forgesmith level + int bonus to be able to access]

    3 Craft Mastery: +4 ranks to any 1 craft skill

    3 Exquisite Articulation: create metal armor that`s so easy to wear it`s treated as 1 category lighter than

    normal, takes 1 extra week, DC increases by 5

    3 Transmutation Metamagic: apply any metamagic feat to transmutation spells with half usual penalty

    4 Animating Touch: animate objects as the spell 1/day, effective level is caster level

    4 Endurance of Mishap: +1 fort save

    4 Shaping magic: alter change 1 non-magic item of medium size or smaller into a similar item

    full round action, permanent

    magical alter change 1 magic item of medium size or smaller into a similar item

    full round action, 24hours, retains magic

    prowess +1 to 1 physical ability score

    quickness +10 to base speed

    resilience +1 natural armor bonus [can take more than once, each time adding]

    resist +2 save versus transmutation magic

    toughness +10 hp

    transform change race or gender or general appearance, 1/week per shaper level

    5 Elemental Resistance: any 1 element

    5 Forge Mastery =BD Xp to create an item

    5 gargoyle animate and control 1 mundane gargoyle, 38hp, 24hrs, standard action

    6 Practical Insight: any 1 general feat

    6 Secret of Building: reduce the cost of construct or golem by 50%, reduce time by 25%

    7 Craftsmanship: creations are sturdy & durable, uniform & seamless, +2 natural armor, +2HD, +10hp

    7 Minor Transmutation: cast 1 first level transmutation spell freely, 1/round, 1/day per 2 character levels

    8 Magical Insight: any 1 metamagic or item creation feat

    8 Signature Rune: item becomes 5lbs lighter to those bearing Smith`s arcane mark

    9 Faithful Creation: no chance of construct or golem breaking free of master`s control

    9 Polymorph Any Object: as spell-like ability 1/day

    10 Disable: able to ruin an item once per 2days, remove magical abilities or disintegrate non-magic item

    10 Major Transmutation: cast 1 transmutation spell freely 1/rnd. 1/day/4 character levels









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  2. #2
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Interesting but I have the following comments/questions:


    1. Is Mokar a new god you are creating? If so, totally disagree for Birthright - the reason being the BR pantheon is very strictly designed with most of the history of the setting being tied up with the human pantheon itself (that is the source of bloodlines after all). Maybe a name along the lines of Heart or Fire of the Forge or something like that might be better - avoids the god issue.

    2. What is a transformative craft?

    3. Why both the arcane and divine spellcasting prerequisites? Why not just able to cast 2nd level spells (or third if necessary, but ranks in alchemy keep this in the at least 5th level to qualify requirement already). Dwarven arcane casters, while not forbidden are in general fewer than other races - especially in BR. And since it requires a bloodline to be a wizard/sorcerer and few dwarves were at Deismaar, there are even fewer of them to draw from so most dwarven arcane casters are either bards or magicians (my vote is for bards). The prerequisite for craft - alchemy is any spellcaster and not exclusive to arcane ones. If you make the prerequisite any spellcaster then elves are eligble and they are also known for their craftsmanship.

    4. What is its hit die?

    5. What is a minor mystery?

    6. Is extra transmutation supposed to be like school specialization in that the PrC can cast one extra spell per spell level per day from the transmutaion school? It reads kind of funny if that is what the intent is.


    7. Prerequistes that might be better than the craft transmutation might be: craft - weaponsmithing, craft- armorer, profession - blacksmith. Those are the three that seem to be the closest to a god of the forge.

    8. Why is disable device aclass skill? I can understand if it applies to metal worked ones, but far too many traps are not metal-based. Snares, pits, stone-worked ones, etc. And this skill applies to them all.

    9. How do these mysteries work? At first glance I thought that the PrC had to choose one from the list, but with the [Forgesmith level + int bonus to be able to access] it makes it seem like the PrC can access any of them when everdiesired or something else. Should reword to match the loremaster text as far as as access to "secrets", the PrC chooses one at each time eligible.

    10. What is meant by half the usual penalty in the following?
    Transmutation Metamagic: apply any metamagic feat to transmutation spells with half usual penalty.
    Is that half the spell slot adjustment? If so this is kind of hard to handle since they don't go in even adjustments? Does this include the penalty for spontaneous casters (i.e., the extended casting time they have when applying metamagic feats to spells)? Too open in phrasing.

    11. 4 sp points per level and only 7 class skills? Even using craft and profession as multiples leaves somethng to be desired in the matching here. Wizards/sorcerers/clerics all get 2 sp per level. Use Magic Device might be a good class skill to add, since the PrC has 3 item creation feats as a prerequisite.

    12. This one seems to run together in the text:

    4 Shaping magic: alter change 1 non-magic item of medium size or smaller into a similar item
    full round action, permanent
    magical alter change 1 magic item of medium size or smaller into a similar item
    full round action, 24hours, retains magic
    prowess +1 to 1 physical ability score
    quickness +10 to base speed
    resilience +1 natural armor bonus [can take more than once, each time adding]
    resist +2 save versus transmutation magic
    toughness +10 hp
    transform change race or gender or general appearance, 1/week per shaper level
    Or the listings for prowess, resilience, resist, toughness and transform need to have separate listings for prequisite (Forgesmith level + Int bonus).


    13. Need more expanation for this one:
    7 Minor Transmutation: cast 1 first level transmutation spell freely, 1/round, 1/day per 2 character levels
    Spell-like ability? Can never do more than one spell-like ability per round. Only a Quckened Spell allows casting of more than one spell per round.


    14. Same with this one:
    10 Major Transmutation: cast 1 transmutation spell freely 1/rnd. 1/day/4 character levels
    15. The minor and major transmutations can have an overpowering effect if not carefull. Combine these with the effects of the extra transmutations and the PrC can cast a whole bunch of extra spells per day.

    16. Need to include a description of what +1 spellcaster level means. It doesn't always mean the same thing. +1 for spells learned/cast per day? +1 to every spellcasting class (prerequisites require both arcane and divine caster levels).


    17. What does this mean? Specifically "BD"?
    5 Forge Mastery =BD Xp to create an item
    Duane Eggert

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    <BODY>


    <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>1.Is Mokar a new god you are creating?If so, totally disagree for Birthright - the reason being the BR pantheon is very strictly designed with most of the history of the setting being tied up with the human pantheon itself(that is the source of bloodlines after all).
    </FONT></P>



    <FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Actually Mokar is from a different campaign- a smith god </P>




    2.What is a transformative craft?
    </P>



    any craft that transforems something- blacksmith, pottery, etc</P>




    3.Why both the arcane and divine spellcasting prerequisites? Why not just able to cast 2nd level spells (or third if necessary, but ranks in alchemy keep this in the at least 5th level to qualify requirement already).Dwarven arcane casters, while not forbidden are in general fewer than other races - especially in BR.And since it requires a bloodline to be a wizard/sorcerer and few dwarves were at Deismaar, there are even fewer of them to draw from so most dwarven arcane casters are either bards or
    magicians (my vote is for bards). The prerequisite for craft - alchemy is any spellcaster and not exclusive to arcane ones.If you make the prerequisite any spellcaster then elves are eligble and they are also known for their craftsmanship.
    </P>



    Divine favor helps the crafter in their work</P>




    4.What is its hit die?
    </P>



    oops- probably d4, maybe d6</P>




    5.What is aminor mystery?
    </P>



    the lower level ones- 3, maybe 4</P>




    6.Is extra transmutation supposed to be like school specialization in that the PrC can cast one extra spell per spell level per day from the transmutaion school? It reads kind of funny if that is what the intent is.
    </P>



    Yes, it is an extra spell above the base class chart

    7. Prerequistes that might be better than the craft transmutation might be: craft - weaponsmithing, craft- armorer, profession - blacksmith.Those are the three that seem to be the closest to a god of the forge. </P>



    Well, i wanted to leave some flexibility. I found that when i looked at existing prestige classes, i tended to have some the requirded skills or feats, but not all

    8. Why is disable device aclass skill? I can understand if it applies to metal worked ones, but far too many traps are not metal-based.Snares, pits, stone-worked ones, etc.And this skill applies to them all.
    </P>



    I got that from published artificer classes. That`s why i`m asking- does it seem right for the class? i guess not, eh?</P>




    9.How do these mysteries work?At first glance I thought that the PrC had to choose one from the list, but with the [Forgesmith level + int bonus to be able to access] it makes it seem like the PrC can access any of them when everdiesired or something else.Should reword to match the loremaster text as far as as access to "secrets", the PrC chooses one at each time eligible.
    </P>



    Oh, sorry- like a bonus feat- special list- only one per mystery.</P>




    10.What is meant by half the usual penalty in the following?

    ------------ QUOTE ----------
    Transmutation Metamagic: apply any metamagic feat to transmutation spells with half usual penalty.
    -----------------------------
    Is that half the spell slot adjustment? If so this is kind of hard to handle since they don`t go in even adjustments?Does this include the penalty for spontaneous casters (i.e., the extended casting time they have when applying metamagic feats to spells)?Too open in phrasing.
    </P>



    Yes, rounded down- so if it`s 2 level higher it becomes i level higher.</P>




    11. 4 sp points per level and only 7 class skills? Even using craft and profession as multiples leaves somethng to be desired in the matching here.Wizards/sorcerers/clerics all get 2 sp per level.Use Magic Device might be a good class skill to add, since the PrC has 3 item creation feats as a prerequisite.
    </P>



    Cool, thanks i`ll add that one. I was considering that several craft skills would be taken each level.</P>




    12.This one seems to run together in the text:

    ------------ QUOTE ----------
    4 Shaping magic: alter change 1 non-magic item of medium size or smaller into a similar item
    full round action, permanent
    magical alter change 1 magic item of medium size or smaller into a similar item
    full round action, 24hours, retains magic
    prowess +1 to 1 physical ability score
    quickness +10 to base speed
    resilience +1 natural armor bonus [can take more than once, each time adding]
    resist +2 save versus transmutation magic
    toughness +10 hp
    transform change race or gender or general appearance, 1/week per shaper level
    -----------------------------

    Or the listings for prowess, resilience, resist, toughness and transform need to have separate listings for prequisite (Forgesmith level + Int bonus).
    </P>



    Sorry- text formatting: Shaping has several separate choices, again only one at a time.


    15.The minor and major transmutations can have an overpowering effect if not carefull.Combine these with the effects of the extra transmutations and the PrC can cast a whole bunch of extra spells per day.
    </P>



    Ok, there`s an item to trim/reconsider. thanks</P>




    16.Need to include a description of what +1 spellcaster level means. It doesn`t always mean the same thing. +1 for spells learned/cast per day?+1 to every spellcasting class (prerequisites require both arcane and divine caster levels).
    </P>



    Well, one class only- i wasn`t sure if i should make it specifically arcane or optionally arcane or divine.

    17.What does this mean?Specifically "BD"?
    ------------ QUOTE ----------
    5 Forge Masteryhalf Xp to create an item </FONT>
    sorry- text converted
    </P>



    Just costs 1/2 [half] XP than normal to create item.</P>




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    1. Is Mokar a new god you are creating? If so, totally disagree for Birthright - the reason being the BR pantheon is very strictly designed with most of the history of the setting being tied up with the human pantheon itself (that is the source of bloodlines after all).




    Actually Mokar is from a different campaign- a smith god
    Then drop him - doesn&#39;t fit in a BR specific PrC.



    3. Why both the arcane and divine spellcasting prerequisites? Why not just able to cast 2nd level spells (or third if necessary, but ranks in alchemy keep this in the at least 5th level to qualify requirement already). Dwarven arcane casters, while not forbidden are in general fewer than other races - especially in BR. And since it requires a bloodline to be a wizard/sorcerer and few dwarves were at Deismaar, there are even fewer of them to draw from so most dwarven arcane casters are either bards or
    magicians (my vote is for bards). The prerequisite for craft - alchemy is any spellcaster and not exclusive to arcane ones. If you make the prerequisite any spellcaster then elves are eligble and they are also known for their craftsmanship.




    Divine favor helps the crafter in their work
    Only applies if there is a god of the forge, IIRC only Moradin is specifically tied to that, at least as far as BR deities go. If there is no generic deity of the forge then there is really no reason to have a specific divine aspect to this. Again by dropping it the PrC will become open to elves which are pretty much on par with dwarves as far as their ability to make masterful craftwork. This is really an important thing for a BR specific PrC and keeping to the BR setting. Works for other settign where elves have gods but not in BR.



    6. Is extra transmutation supposed to be like school specialization in that the PrC can cast one extra spell per spell level per day from the transmutaion school? It reads kind of funny if that is what the intent is.




    Yes, it is an extra spell above the base class chart
    Now the interesting part. Is it divine or arcane. Since as written this PrC is both arcane and divine this needs to fall somewhere.






    10. What is meant by half the usual penalty in the following?

    ------------ QUOTE ----------
    Transmutation Metamagic: apply any metamagic feat to transmutation spells with half usual penalty.
    -----------------------------
    Is that half the spell slot adjustment? If so this is kind of hard to handle since they don`t go in even adjustments? Does this include the penalty for spontaneous casters (i.e., the extended casting time they have when applying metamagic feats to spells)? Too open in phrasing.



    Yes, rounded down- so if it`s 2 level higher it becomes i level higher.
    How about the spontaneous caster penalty?
    Duane Eggert

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    <BODY>

    </P>---- Original Message -----



    </P>From: irdeggman <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>



    </P>Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 4:28 pm



    </P>Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] Forgesmith [2#3051]



    </P>



    </P>



    >
    > ------------ QUOTE ----------
    > 10. What is meant by half the usual penalty in the following?
    >
    > ------------ QUOTE ----------
    > Transmutation Metamagic: apply any metamagic feat to transmutation
    > spells with half usual penalty.
    > -----------------------------
    > Is that half the spell slot adjustment? If so this is kind of
    > hard to handle since they don`t go in even adjustments? Does this
    > include the penalty for spontaneous casters (i.e., the extended
    > casting time they have when applying metamagic feats to spells)?
    > Too open in phrasing.
    >
    >
    >
    > Yes, rounded down- so if it`s 2 level higher it becomes i level
    > higher.-----------------------------
    >
    >
    >
    > How about the spontaneous caster penalty?
    >
    </P>



    that would be halved as well.

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    irdeggman schrieb:



    >This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

    > You can view the entire thread at:

    > http://www.birthright.net/forums/ind...=ST&f=2&t=3051

    >

    > irdeggman wrote:

    >

    >...

    >Actually Mokar is from a different campaign- a smith god

    >-----------------------------

    >Then drop him - doesn`t fit in a BR specific PrC.

    >

    >

    Here I disagree. Moradin is not the only god of the dwarves in

    Birthright - even the 2E Rulebook already said that Moradin is "the

    chief deity of a mysterious pantheon of dwarven gods". No problem to fit

    Mokar in as a subordinate to Moradin, only known to dwarves and never

    heard of outside dwarven halls.

    bye

    Michael

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    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ConjurerDragon@Mar 30 2005, 09:30 AM
    irdeggman schrieb:



    >This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

    > You can view the entire thread at:

    > http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php...=2&t=3051<br />
    >

    > irdeggman wrote:

    >

    >...

    >Actually Mokar is from a different campaign- a smith god

    >-----------------------------

    >Then drop him - doesn`t fit in a BR specific PrC.

    >

    >

    Here I disagree. Moradin is not the only god of the dwarves in

    Birthright - even the 2E Rulebook already said that Moradin is "the

    chief deity of a mysterious pantheon of dwarven gods". No problem to fit

    Mokar in as a subordinate to Moradin, only known to dwarves and never

    heard of outside dwarven halls.

    bye

    Michael
    I didn&#39;t say Moradin was the only dwarven god. He is the dwarven god of the forge though and also referred to as Soul Forger.

    The major problem arises with the humans. I did say that creating a new god specifically for the human pantheon doesn&#39;t fit in very well at all.

    That was the point I was trying to make, that tieing the class into a specific god of the forge that is different than one of the already existing human pantheon doesn&#39;t work with the history and entire concept of the setting. The old human gods died at Deismaar, they spilt their blood. This blood created some new gods and granted divine essence to some select mortals. This divine essence gave these mortals the power to rule and harness greater power (blood abilities and greater magic), etc.
    Duane Eggert

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    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    Moradin/Morkar... what`s the diff?



    Actually, not everybody is aware of this, but the PrC description was

    cross-posted to several lists, so I`m assuming it was a rather general

    thing meant for a broader audience than just the BR community. For our

    purposes, however, it could easily work as a class for priests of the

    aforementioned BR-specific dwarven god without too much redefining--just

    the spelling of the patron`s name....



    Gary

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    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by geeman@Mar 30 2005, 05:20 PM
    Moradin/Morkar... what`s the diff?



    Actually, not everybody is aware of this, but the PrC description was

    cross-posted to several lists, so I`m assuming it was a rather general

    thing meant for a broader audience than just the BR community. For our

    purposes, however, it could easily work as a class for priests of the

    aforementioned BR-specific dwarven god without too much redefining--just

    the spelling of the patron`s name....



    Gary
    Interesting about the cross posts. Well with the deity aspect it doesn&#39;t work in BR, although it could work in other worlds and especially in a home-made one, just neaten up the write-up and fine tune it a bit.

    As far as Moradin/Morkar goes if you look at the write up you will notice that this PrC is not a dwarf only one. It is available to humans and dwarves.

    Mokar`s Forgesmith

    [God of smiths, crafting, both Dwarves and Humans]

    The human aspect is the one that causes the most setting issue. Like I said creating a "new" human god of the forge just doesn&#39;t seem to fit the specific human deity pantheon structure of the setting. The human pantheon is one of the most integral parts of the setting.
    Duane Eggert

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    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    irdeggman writes:



    > Well with the deity aspect it doesn`t work in BR, although it could

    > work in other worlds and especially in a home-made one, just neaten

    > up the write-up and fine tune it a bit.

    >

    > As far as Moradin/Morkar goes if you look at the write up you will

    > notice that this PrC is not a dwarf only one. It is available to

    > humans and dwarves.

    >

    > The human aspect is the one that causes the most setting issue. Like

    > I said creating a "new" human god of the forge just doesn`t seem to

    > fit the specific human deity pantheon structure of the setting. The

    > human pantheon is one of the most integral parts of the setting.



    I would be extremely leery of adding any new gods to the BR pantheon, even

    the dwarven pantheon about which we know rather little. Even though we can

    assume that they have a pantheon similar to that of dwarves in other 2e

    settings, Moradin is specifically the big hoohah for them, and the PrC in

    question here seems to be geared towards the worship of a god that is very

    much like him.



    That said, the class description doesn`t seem to require a whole heck of a

    lot of redefining for use in BR to describe characters which should be

    overwelmingly dwarven and dedicated to Moradin. I`m talking simple game

    mechanics here, not so much the colour text. Those game mechanics should

    work pretty well.



    In the past I`ve had a lot of trouble with employing "craftsman" type

    characters in D&D in that the game mechanics for such things aren`t all that

    well defined or even necessary. Other game systems do a much better job

    with that kind of thing. Point being, I`m always interested in having a

    look at classes that forge, manufacture, etc. just to see what can be

    gleaned from such things.



    Gary

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