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  1. #1
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    Another prestige class for comments/suggestions
    Let me claim your Birthright!!

  2. #2
    Birthright Developer irdeggman's Avatar
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    Mostly no problems but. . . .

    There are no elven gods (hence no clerics). Also Cerilian elves must be of a non-lawful alignment - hence no paladins, plus the fact that all Cerilian paladins must serve a deity (i.e., no free ranging paladins).

    The concept of serving a deity is an anathma to the elven mindset. While a half-elf could potentially be a cleric (or even a paladin) they would lose the tie to the elven way of life that this prestige class promotes as being the champion of.
    Duane Eggert

  3. #3
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    While I will agree that the Bladesinger is a culturally viable theme for Sidhelien (to the point of being even more appropriate than the other elven cultures found in other settings), I feel a little disappointed at how the theme was implemented:

    A BAB requirement of +5 or better is a little strange when compared with the skill rank requirements or the spell-casting requirement: a bard might have taken the prestige class at 7th level due to the BAB requirement but still has to wait until the 12th level, while a 2nd-level rogue/3rd-level wizard could take the class much earlier if not for the feat requirements, while wizard/fighters need wait until 7th-level to get access to it... The skill ranks requirement is a little too low (5 ranks are available at 2nd level&#33 for some. In the end, it seems a little strange...

    Furthermore, I find the idea of having to go back to your tutor every other level is an unnecessary hindrance.

    Accessibility to half-elves being debatable was a good call.

    I wonder, why should there be both Knowledge (elven society) and Knowledge (elven culture)?

    2 + Int skill points are debatable; I suppose the class is stronger in its abilities, but I overall prefer that you lower the class features of the class (which remind of the old issue of making a character too good in one aspect and deciding to lower all its other capabilities). For example, the entry saying that the BAB progression applies only with your chosen weapon, as well as the kind of weapon being available, seems silly.

    Let me give you an example: Arcane Duet allows one to forgo all attacks of opportunity one would get to make an additional attack at his highest BAB plus cast a spell with a casting time of one standard action or less when taking a full attack action; as long as a character does not have the Combat Reflexes feat, he gets only one attack of opportunity, so, if he deems proper that this 1 attack is not worth the trouble, he gets a much better benefit; so much that he doesn't give much away...

    Another example: I would drop any damage bonus the Bladesinger gets; a bonus on attack rolls and AC is good enough anyway!

    Dance Feint (which might be better renamed to Dancing Feint) is a very ability you should not drop!

    Some suggestions I have in mind are raising the skill points gained to 4 + Int modifier, dropping the damage bonuses, retain the Dance Feint and Dance of the Blade abilities as they are, keep spellcasting as is, reduce the bonus from Whistling Blade (which is near scandallous at higher levels&#33, drop the "cannot be disarmed of his chosen weapon" clause found at 10th level (granting a bonus according to level, perhaps?), and finally make something about how the BAB is treated; you could give the class a poor BAB and say that the Bladesinger adds half his class levels, rounded up, as a bonus to his BAB when making attacks with his chosen weapon (this last one is the only solution I see to the problem, though I find the whole idea unnecessary anyway).

  4. #4
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    Blade Singer already exists on page 17 of the Complete Warrior book.

  5. #5
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    Among the Elves, there is a near-universal belief that Sidhelien Bladesingers can find victory in any situation, no matter how dire.
    Haven't humans pretty much wiped the floor with Cerelian Elves? Id always thought of the elves as fatalisitc and defeatist. Is Rhuobhe victorious or merely demonicly stubborn....
    "Silly elf, Victory is for humans..." (rough paraphrase)

    Cut the material about elven paladins and clerics to be consistent with BRCS.

    I would remove the Knowledge (Elven Culture) 4 ranks requirement. Remember that the DnD skills are not everything that the player knows. Any elf would know about their culture like an average american college student knows about western culture (though sadly that might not be much these days). A DnD skill with ranks is a skill that the character is developing to heroic levels. While this class is trying to be a defender of elvenkind, does it need to be a professor of Medieval Elven Literature?

    I would also remove the combat casting feat requirement, or perhaps one of the other feats. A large number of feats are required and which ever one that is least central to the idea of the class could be trimmed.

    I also note the two different elven knowledge skills should be stopped. The widepread proliferation of knowledge skills really dilutes what little skill points characters get...

    The tutor requirement is a bit harsh, especially because the high entrance requirements make me think that the character has already been thru much training just to join the PrC.

    The 2+int skill points are okay for me. Most arcane characters will have a int bonus. Those that dont will have to focus their entire intellect on this difficult and powefull class. [Though I am rather a fan of bumping up many classes skill points in skill heavy BR, if fighter doesnt get a bump up to 4 in your campaign then this class shouldnt]

    Making the BAB exclusive to only one weapon is odd. Are there other precedents to this in WotC material? If all of the PrCs abilities are restricted to the one weapon, players would almost never use other weapons. This restriction would only rarely come into play (upon capture etc), and then it would really really suck (almost taking a higher level bladeslinger out of any zone of fun play). Otherwise it is a fake restriction to make the class look more balanced when it really doesnt.

    But overall a good PrC!

  6. #6
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    Phil, that's not really an argument, is it?

    Danip, I am glad we mostly agree with each other ; I also forgot to mention that the kind of weapon to be chosen entry must be changed: Monkey Grip no longer is viable as shown in Sword and Fist (and thus became much more balanced; see Complete Warrior), and we are supposed to build all things without mention of outside source material, so I suggest that you also take a step back and look at the mess the image of an elf finely swinging a greatsword really is.

    The entry might be better changed to the weapon being a one-handed or light weapon, and I find it appropriate to include a requirement that the weapon deals either slashing or piercing damage.

  7. #7
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    The argument is that there is already a prestige class with that name that already covers aspects of the prestige class presented here.

  8. #8
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    We all know there is already a Bladesinger class in Complete Warrior, and that there was one earlier on (which was also errataed) in Tome and Blood. The reason this is not an argument is that we should strive to make something more fitting for the setting, not to mention the fact that the prestige class is not available to all per se; this work strives to make splatbooks not necessary for one to play in the setting; if one has the splatbook and prefers the class found therein, that's it!

  9. #9
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    Maybe just a new name is in order.....Cerelian Bladesinger
    or Bladedancer (it is more a dance then singing ability)

    or can anyone translate one of those names into an elvish style BR name (i.e. something almost impossible to pronounce like awnie, mebghali, etc).

  10. #10
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    Good call (another thing I forgot to point out); the closest I can come up with is Lanndamhsóir (Lann meaning the blade of a weapon, Damhsóir meaning a dancer).

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