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  1. #1
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Cerilian elves are pretty amazing creatures - immortal faerie beings who migrated to the Daylight countless years ago. That aside, are there elves to be found outside Cerilia or did the settle only there? If elves can be found in other places, are they the same as their Cerilian brethren or very different?

    Here are some rough ideas:

    When the sidhe migrated to the DW long ago, they settle in many different places, but Cerilia was one of the major areas of settlement (they probably preferred places of natural beauty, like the vast unspoiled woodslands of Cerilia).

    Over the years (who knows for how long the leves have been around) some of the elven settlements have been destroyed, while others have changed character.

    High Elven culture (including some Cerilian elves)
    - These are elves who despite hardship have kept their civilization intact. Good example would be the Sielwode.

    Wood Elven culture (including some Cerilian elves)
    - In some lands the elves have abandoned/lost part of their more sophisticated cultural traits. They are still elves and pretty civilized by human standards, but the days of great elven artifacts and cities are gone. Tuarhievel would be a good example of this.

    Wild Elves
    - Perhaps in some areas hardship or other causes have stripped away the last vestiges of civilization. Wild Elves are still immortal and enchanted, but since they lead such brutal and dangerous lives, this immortality isn't really all that great...Perhaps there are Wild elves in Aduria or Thaele, the Cerilain kind is far too sophisticated for this culture to be applicable.

    Grey Elves (ashen Elves)
    - Elves are magical and fey, but what happens if they end up for a long time in areas with little or no magic potential (like a desert). Maybe they turn into mortals after a while, becomming the Ashen.

    Dark Elves
    - The seelie/unseelie split is said to have occured AFTER the sidhe left the SW, and thus the conflict isn't mirrored in the DW. However, if you really want to use Dark Elves, you could say that the DW and the Sw mirror each other, and that the conflict eventually carried over to the sidhe as well.

    B
    Cheers
    Bj°rn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  2. #2
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    Where does it say that elves came from the Shadow World? According to Blood Spawn, the elves were born at the same time as the Shadow World, when the race known as the Sie also split at the same time, becoming two seperate entities. The half that remained in Cerilia became the Elves, while the half that went with the Shadow World became the faeries.

    As this forum was set up specifically for homebrew type material I won't comment on the rest of your post, except to say that I only use a single species of elves and they are only found in Cerilia. Other continents have other races.
    Let me claim your Birthright!!

  3. #3
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Raesene Andu@Jan 17 2005, 11:45 AM
    Where does it say that elves came from the Shadow World? According to Blood Spawn, the elves were born at the same time as the Shadow World, when the race known as the Sie also split at the same time, becoming two seperate entities. The half that remained in Cerilia became the Elves, while the half that went with the Shadow World became the faeries.
    Perhaps "migrated/came from" is too strong an expression - perhaps I should have picked "chose to remain in the daylight world" instead.

    IMO the split between DW and SW resulted in most of the "magic and faerie stuff" to go to the SW. At least most of the sources point to the world having been a much more fantastic and magical place before the split. So IMO the Sie would naturally belong with the SW (with all the other faeries), but the sidhe didn't want that and chose the DW instead.

    Hope that made my position a bit clearer.

    B
    Cheers
    Bj°rn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  4. #4
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    Ok here is the way I look at it, the elves were once united under the immortal king Braelachhiem and during this time spread far and wide much like the anuirien empire. They enlased the lesser races they found and forced the dwarves back into the mountains but at least the dwarves escaped being enslaved.

    I view the races that are enslaved by the elves having no gods like the elves until daesmar.

    The slaves rebel and slay Braelachhiem fracturing the elves into numbers small kingdoms.

    I like the idea of an Irda or high ogre from dragonlance nation of elves. Haughty and arogant they have maintained slavery and built an empire elsewhere maybe in the jungles and forests of aduria.

    I also have wood elves in thaele .

    I like the idea of grey elves as well but rather than the ashen the extream isolationist elves who are obsesed with magic.

    Dont know if I particulary like the idea of dark elves but maybe , the elves of tuar annwn are maybe changing with their contact with the shadowworld, maybe a group of elves who have had even more extended contact with the shadow world.
    MORNINGSTAR

  5. #5
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    Rhuobhe is already the prototype "dark elf." His transformation has made him much like a drow, which is pretty cool if he's a unique creature, not so exciting if there's a whole sub-species of elves like him.

    IMC I'm more aligned with Raesene - one race of Sidhelien, Seelie and Unseelie faeries in the SW. I took to heart the original history that made Cerilia the idyllic domain of the Sidhelien. When the Adurians migrated, elves and humans made contact for the first time - about 2500 years ago by 550 MR.

    On the other hand, I think a lot of your ideas for varieties of elves is interesting.

    IMC elves will wither and die if there is no mebhaighal. Their immortality and vitality is sustained by the presence of mebhaighal. Conversely the (Un)Seelie are empowered by the Seeming, and will die if away from it for too long. It's one of the reasons elves and faeries rarely cross the barrier betwen the daylight and shadow worlds - it can be deadly for them.
    This gives new perspective to the elven nations: surrounded by civilization their forest homes become like prisons, and wars of aggression become even more lethal and costly to attempt. The wilder areas bordering the elven realms have their own dangers as well (like the Gorgon's Crown and the Five Peaks).

    Graham, interesting idea about the elves of Tuar Annwyn shifting toward the Shadow World - a group of elves becoming more like half-breed Sidhelien/Seelie. A bit difficult given the established seperation of the 2 races (the Sie had to make a choice long ago - can they really change their minds now?), but possible.

  6. #6
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    IMC I'm more aligned with Raesene - one race of Sidhelien, Seelie and Unseelie faeries in the SW. I took to heart the original history that made Cerilia the idyllic domain of the Sidhelien. When the Adurians migrated, elves and humans made contact for the first time - about 2500 years ago by 550 MR.
    Yes I like the one elven race the idea's i put forward are more different potential culture's the ogre one being those who never gave up their slaves.
    MORNINGSTAR

  7. #7
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 02:10 PM 1/17/2005 +0100, graham anderson wrote:



    >I also have wood elves in thaele .

    >

    >I like the idea of grey elves as well but rather than the ashen the

    >extream isolationist elves who are obsesed with magic.

    >

    >Dont know if I particulary like the idea of dark elves but maybe , the

    >elves of tuar annwn are maybe changing with their contact with the

    >shadowworld, maybe a group of elves who have had even more extended

    >contact with the shadow world.



    Personally, I would stay away from any of the typical descriptors of elves

    in D&D, and their associated racial characteristics. Wood, wild, gray,

    high and drow elves are all a bit too pat for descriptors (or races) for

    BR. There have been a few Dragon articles on various sub-races of elves

    (Mist elves, for instance, IIRC seemed apt when I read it for elves from

    Tuar Annwn) from which I think we can pull a few references and ideas, but

    on the whole I think they should be described as elves of particular

    domains rather than elves of the typical D&D "type."



    Gary

  8. #8
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    In a message dated 1/17/05 5:33:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,

    brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET writes:



    << That aside, are there elves to be found outside Cerilia or did the settle

    only there? If elves can be found in other places, are they the same as their

    Cerilian brethren or very different? >>



    IMO, elves are only on Cerilia, they didn`t feel like moving away, unlike the

    humans, who shifted all over the place.



    Lee.

  9. #9
    Administrator Green Knight's Avatar
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    Originally posted by geeman@Jan 17 2005, 06:00 PM
    Personally, I would stay away from any of the typical descriptors of elves in D&D, and their associated racial characteristics. Wood, wild, gray, high and drow elves are all a bit too pat for descriptors (or races) for BR.
    Perhaps the names were not very original, but they refered to culture rather more than they did anything stat-wise. I&#39;m not really looking to create any sub-races buth rather explore the posibility that elves may have (wildly) varying cultures...

    B
    Cheers
    Bj°rn
    DM of Ruins of Empire II PbeM

  10. #10
    Senior Member
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    Green Knight schrieb:



    >This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

    > You can view the entire thread at:

    > http://www.birthright.net/forums/ind...ST&f=21&t=2936

    >

    > Green Knight wrote:

    >...

    >High Elven culture (including some Cerilian elves)

    >- These are elves who despite hardship have kept their civilization intact. Good example would be the Sielwode.

    >

    In "Greatheart" the Sielwode is mentioned to be one of the more rural?

    backwater? areas of sidhelien rule compared to the other elven courts.



    >Dark Elves

    >- The seelie/unseelie split is said to have occured AFTER the sidhe left the SW, and thus the conflict isn`t mirrored in the DW. However, if you really want to use Dark Elves, you could say that the DW and the Sw mirror each other, and that the conflict eventually carried over to the sidhe as well.

    >

    Dark Elves would also be interesting as Rhuobhes "awnsheglienspawn". The

    Gorgon can manage to make human females give birth to small gorgons, the

    Hydra has a small population of Hydrakin - why not Rhuobhe, whose skin

    turned dark and whose eyes can┤t stand the sunlight become the father of

    a generation of dark elves?

    bye

    Michael

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