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  1. #1
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    Working on the Traverser of Shadows came the issue of whether he should be given the ability to directly tap into the seeming through use of an old rule in 2e, called a Seeming score (found in the Blood Spawn and written by Ed Stark). Creatures could produce outstanding effects through their ability to control the Seeming and, should other people not perceive them for a supernatural change of what things are, use them against others.

    Originally posted by "The Seeming in Play"
    Nothing in the Shadow World is as it seems. At least, that is the accepted doctrine. It is untrue. Everything in the Shadow World, which is governed by the law of Seeming, is exactly as it seems.However, what a thing seems to be may change without notice. That is the true
    law of Seeming.
    In other words, if something changes through the power of the Seeming, it will be thus unless you perceive it for what it trully is.

    It is rather obvious that this should be included in the Atlas. However, there are other issues that arise from this fact: how should Seeming and Perception scores be handled? And how should the two be used?

    One could easily assume that Charisma affects one's Seeming score and Wisdom affects one's Perception score, but other than that...

  2. #2
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    I wasn't sure if this was something that should be included in the Atlas, or something that should be kept over for a possible Shadow World expansion. If people want to see it in the Atlas though, it can be included.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    I thought of a Shadow-World-specific supplement as well, but don't see a real reason for such a choice: while the Shadow World is vast enough a subject, it is still is a part of Aebrynnis (kind of like a parallel dimention), so I don't see a reason to put these two things apart, since supplements have a slight tendency of ignoring issues that appeared in other supplements involuntarily.

    Furthermore, this would allow mentioning such information as where the SW is encroaching Aebrynnis and other stuff as well as allowing all of this to be found in one supplement only.

    Since finishing the Atlas is so important (I know it is), we could do this: finish the Atlas, post it, then finish a SW supplement and post both it as a seperate document as well as an updated version of the Atlas which would include all information on the SW. How does that sound?

  4. #4
    Birthright Developer Raesene Andu's Avatar
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    That would be fine with me. That is sort of how I planned the Atlas anyway, release each completed part at a time. Although at the moment it is primarily incomplete parts that are being released
    Let me claim your Birthright!!

  5. #5
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    I came up with an idea, but I would like to see how this plays through...

    There was this whole thing I wanted to do with spells relating to the Shadow World and especially the Seeming; what I thought of is that some creatures (those who have a Seeming score, if we are to implement this) may be able to cast some such spells by spending Seeming points; these points could be regained at a rate of 1 per hour (or the whole pool after rest?). What do you think?

  6. #6
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    In the Traverser of Shadows thread, Irdeggman pointed out that we could discuss the issue of Seeming and Perception as found in the Blood Spawn book in another thread so that we could implement the rules in the final SW result.

    I am waiting for ideas or comments!

  7. #7
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    Brainstorming:

    Seeming and Illusion spells are very similar. Using similar mechanics makes sense. Thus, a Seeming score might represent the ability to create progressively more advanced illusions as spell-like abilities, while Perception could be represented by Will saves against these abilities. Certain creatures closely attuned to the Seeming might gain bonuses to these saves, and/or gain spell-like abilities to cast illusion spells.

    Rasp, rather than create an entirely new mechanic, why don't we just go with Seeming abilities being represented by spell-like illusion abilities? I think the number of creatures able to manipulate the Seeming should be somewhat limited anyways, mainly to long-time native races of the SW (the fae, SW halflings, and certain indigineous creatures who specialize in such powers).

    In my writeup on Faeries in the Royal Library (now in the Midnight Cauldron forum) I granted the Seelie and Unseelie the inherent ability to cast Illusion and Enchantment spells based on their HD. I see this race as the real masters of manipulating the Seeming. Here's the Seelie progression reprinted for the sake of reference:

    The Seelie have an intuitive ability to sense and manipulate the Seeming, an ability that grows with time and practice. At 1st and every other level thereafter, the Seelie gains access to all enchantment and illusion wizard spells of the given level, and may cast any 3 spells of that level as a spell-like ability. The exception are cantrips, which even the youngest of Seelie perform with ease. All save DC’s are Charisma-based (DC 10 + spell level + Charisma modifier), though all spell-like abilities are divine in nature.

    HD....... Spell Level Access
    1-2...... 0-level Glamours (at will)
    3-4...... 1st (3/day)
    5-6...... 2nd (3/day)
    7-8...... 3rd (3/day)
    9-10.... 4th (3/day)
    11-12.. 5th(3/day)
    13-14.. 6th (3/day)
    15-16.. 7th (3/day)
    17-18.. 8th (3/day)
    19-20.. 9th (3/day)
    SW halflings, being somewhat detached from their original fae natures, might have a weaker ability than the Seelie. Perhaps something like this:

    Halflings native to the shadow World have an intuitive ability to sense and manipulate the Seeming, an ability that grows with time and practice. At 2nd and every 3 levels thereafter, a Shadow World halfling gains access to all wizard/sorcerer spells of the Illusion school of the given level, and may cast any 3 spells of that level as a spell-like ability each day. All save DC’s are Charisma-based (DC 10 + spell level + Charisma modifier), though all spell-like abilities are divine in nature.

    HD....... Spell Level Access
    2-4...... 0-level Glamours (3/day)
    5-7...... 1st (3/day)
    8-10.... 2nd (3/day)
    11-13.. 3rd (3/day)
    14-16.. 4th (3/day)
    17-19.. 5th(3/day)
    20-22.. 6th (3/day)
    23-25.. 7th (3/day)
    26-28.. 8th (3/day)
    29+.... 9th (3/day)

    Perception of the Seeming: Creatures native to the Shadow World tend to be attuned to its nature, particularly to the illusory nature of the Seeming. Living native creatures of the Shadow World gain a racial bonus on any Will saves to disbelieve illusion magic. This is a +1 racial bonus at 1st level (or 1 HD), and the creature gains an additional +1 bonus every 3 HD or levels thereafter (+2 at 4 HD, +3 at 7 HD, etc.).

    Simple, effective, and pretty darned compatible with existing rules re. magic and spell-like abilities of monsters and certain races.

    What do you think?

    Osprey

  8. #8
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    What you say is most interesting, Osprey, but I tend to think of this in other terms: creatures might have a Seeming score (say, "Seeming 7" or "Seeming 42", which should be a special quality like turning resistance, which can then be spent at a rate of 1 + 1 per spell level or something like that to produce either an Illusion spell effect or any effect out of a list; for example, a creature could spend 4 points to "seemingly" increase the ambient temperature to dangerous levels or something like that. I know this makes the mechanics more difficult, but it makes the Seeming more real. A creature may spend a maximum number of Seeming points according to its HD (for example, half its HD, rounded down) unless otherwise specified.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Osprey's Avatar
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    OK, so how about a more comprehensive set of mechanics to flesh out your starting ideas? Even if its an unpolished, rough set, this would be helpful in us aiding your efforts or at least giving us something more substantial to bicker about. Just kidding. In all seriousness, though, see if you can't work out a comprehensive system that works, and then we can give more suggestions, comments, and critique.

    Osprey

  10. #10
    Senior Member RaspK_FOG's Avatar
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    What I have come up with so far is this:

    Creatures get a Seemign score; this reflects how able they are at tapping onto the Seeming; this could be a function of HD × Charisma modifier; if their Charisma modifer is not positive, it is applied on their HD instead to calculate that creature's Seeming score. An alternative would be to use either a multiple of their Charisma bonus/score or the sum of their HD and Charisma bonus/score.

    Creatures should be able to perceive the use of Seeming; this is a Will save with a DC of 10 + Seeming ability level + Charisma bonus; if the effect originates from the Shadow World itself, the DC is equal to 20 + Seeming ability level.

    Creatures may not spend more Seeming points than half their HD, rounded down, per use of ability.

    1 + 1 Seeming point per spell level can be spent to cast any Illusion spell.

    Seeming points can be spent to produce transmutational or otherwise altering effects that resemble other spells; power level should be judged accordginly, but higher-level powers are overdramatic.

    These guidelines should be followed unless otherwise mentioned.


    Any ideas now?

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