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Thread: cultural titles
04-27-2004, 11:31 AM #1
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- Apr 2004
Lets look at the cultural titles in Anuire:
Should a baron (a title used in Germany since the 16th century for "Freiherr" meaning something as free lord) be lower than a count.
and in Brechtür:
Here is the problem, that the count is above the king, but this is explained with the anuirean occupation.
The sultan (corresponding with the duke or king) whose resonsibilities were much greater than the ones of an emir (corresponding with count) should be above him.
in Vosgaard: O my god thats cruel
Tsarevic means little tsar and should be under tsar.
04-27-2004, 03:33 PM #2
As I understand things, Baron as a title was almost definitely used by the English, and the barons were the major independant feudal lords of that realm.
Besides, Bithright never claimed to be identical to its historical sources, though it does make it even more of a confusing mess, which is pretty OK given the confused state of modern Anuire. :huh:
So has any original sourcebook ever explained why there are no kings in Anuire, yet there are Princes, and things called Royal as well as Imperial.
Here's my theory, a piece of filled-in Andu history:
The Andu were composed of a number of independent clans, and each was ruled by a King. Various wars and mutual enemies drove the the kings of the Andu to form pacts and alliances. But the early wars against the Sidhelien were fought mainly by 1 or 2 Andu kingdoms at a time, as each king tried to claim a seperate plot of Cerilian territory for himself. The onset of the great war against Azrai led the Andu to put aside their differences and unite under the banner of Haelyn and Roele (sons of the strongest of the Andu clans, Clan...?), the chosen champions of Anduiras. After Deismaar, Roele's task of uniting the Andu under a single ruler for all time was not without serious resistance from the surviving Andu kings and clans. But Roele's vision for Empire left no room for these proud kings and their eternal squabbles. To achieve unity, Roele had to crush the clans' independence and convince them that now they were Anuireans, first, last, and always. The title of King was abolished from the new Imperial strata of titles, though a son of the Emperor was still called a Prince, and the Imperial family still called royalty by many Anuireans.
04-27-2004, 03:58 PM #3
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- Nov 2001
- Virginia Beach, Virginia
Actually my theory is that the titles chosen/used (prince Avan for example) were deliberately made in order to make an attempt at giving the impression of one's higher status. For Avan it definitely is an attempt at getting to the Irone Throne. the use of the title Baron was, especially overused throughout Anuire for this effect.
It all reflects the chaos of the empire after the fall of Roele, and by doing that it works to the have the title be real fuzzy in their meaning.Duane Eggert
04-27-2004, 07:10 PM #4
There are a variety of arguments that can be made here, but all of them are
attempts to save the appearances of the publish materials (not a wholey
unworthwhile excercise). At the root of things I suspect these changes are
made just to make things a little different. Annoying different one might
say. Frankly, I would prefer a wholey new system of titles to a real world
one that has been fiddled with to try and create something familiar but with
The arguments I refered to are these.
1) We tend to look at the system of titles at the end and look backwards.
If we pick a different spot on the time line as our reference, we get
different results. If we pick the titles from the early middle ages as our
guide (pre-Charlemagne) the title of count is pretty tiny, and baron and
lord mean nothing specific applying to the great and small alike.
2) Historical events alter the meanings of titles, as mentioned above, so
that figures can have titles that are either too large or too small
depending on what happened before the game started.
04-27-2004, 07:25 PM #5
Someone already mentioned it, but it is true that counts were generally higher than barons. However, this is not Europe, it's Cerilia. There are similarities to be certain, but they are not identical.
The Brecht for example cannot simply be called "German" or Dutch." The Brecht are their own civilization with their own history and completely different influences.
Also keep in mind that all the cultures mix and match concepts of real Earth cultures. No one culture is an exact duplicate of a real life culture.
For example, take a look at the Khinasi titles. The Khinasi are generally thought of as being Arabic or Moorish, but Sultan is a Turkish title. On Earth, a Sultan was basically the Caliph/ Emperor of the Ottoman Empire. So if we were interested in true extrapolation from Earth to Cerilia, there should be no Khinasi Sultans.
As far as I'm concerned, the similiarities between Earth and Cerilian cultures can only go so far - generally about as far as names and the sound of the language.
I'd also like to reply to the comment made by Osprey about Andu kings. The general assumption by those of us working on the Atlas is that, yes, the Andu tribes were ruled over by kings until Roele forced/ cajoled/ asked them into submission.
04-27-2004, 08:48 PM #6
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- Dec 2002
- Victoria BC, Canada
but there is nothing that would prevent us frm saying theat "Linguisticly, XXX culture is patterned after YYY culture.""It may be better to be a live jackal than a dead lion, but it is better still to be a live lion -- and usually easier."
- R. A. Heinlien, from The Collected works of Lazarus Long
04-28-2004, 04:13 AM #7
04-28-2004, 09:03 AM #8
05-03-2004, 09:48 PM #9
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- Apr 2003
05-05-2004, 08:05 AM #10
Mc is Scott? What is Mac?One law, One court, One allied people, One coin, and one tax, is what I shall bring to Cerilia.
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