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02-07-2004, 01:55 AM #1
Here's something I found on Wizards Chat, and KenzerCo's catalog. I'm very angry now.
I think Kenzer & Co. got the license but is using it to expand their Hackmaster line. You guessed it, it's called Hackright.
I swear (but not profanely), what was thought to be a parody that was based on a fictional RPG from their long-running comic book ("Knights of the Dinner Table") is seriously becoming a legitimate game product.
From K&C catalogue
HackRight K&C2123 $34.99 WRITINGRegent of Medoere
02-07-2004, 04:04 PM #2
what are you saying?
02-07-2004, 08:04 PM #3Originally posted by teloft@Feb 7 2004, 08:04 AM
what are you saying?
Not having played Hackmaster I can't make any judgement on the system, but I can say that I'm not entirely happy about it. Even if WotC started putting out BR again, I wouldn't be entirely happy unless all the old authors were working on it. In my mind, BR has creatively expanded a great deal since its cancellation largely because its been in the hands of the fans. For example, a great deal of about Anuirean society has been worked out by a number of fans, including myself.
As well, now that this is happening, I have to seriously question the future of the whole BRCS and d20 Atlas project. Will WotC allow us to continue? Will any product we produce no longer be "official" but simply be fan produced fiction (and thus no longer allowing us the use of copy-righted material)? Will a seperate and completely new BR community growing up around the Hackmaster game eventually drain this one and eventually kill it?
02-07-2004, 09:20 PM #4
At 09:04 PM 2/7/2004 +0100, Fearless_Leader wrote:
>As well, now that this is happening, I have to seriously question the
>future of the whole BRCS and d20 Atlas project. Will WotC allow us to
>continue? Will any product we produce no longer be "official"
>but simply be fan produced fiction (and thus no longer allowing us the use
>of copy-righted material)? Will a seperate and completely new BR
>community growing up around the Hackmaster game eventually drain this one
>and eventually kill it?
While I sympathize with the sentiment and concerns expressed... hasn`t this
always been the case? I mean, WotC could step in any time and say they
were going to reissue the line, rerelease it as D20, or simply say they
felt it was harming their overall product line for BR to be a fan produced,
free product and shut down the efforts of the folks putting together the
conversion or otherwise creating fan produced materials. Such a thing
might be a bit more proximate with Hackmaster BR materials, but I don`t
really think so really since it is a different set of rules, and the tide
of this kind of thing would appear to be against such a move by the WotC
execs. That is, fan produced material is such a mainstay of gaming (and a
lot of entertainment industry) that an attempt to return to the days of
"copyright protectionism" would be very difficult to justify--let alone
enact. It`d make the current round of record companies suing individual
Internet users for downloading MP3`s look like a cake walk.
In the long run, if the Hackmaster version of things becomes more popular
then that really only justifies the decision to go with an open source
philosophy for the material in the first place. I don`t think we should
worry overmuch about the actual game mechanics applied to the setting
itself, since individuals can (and have) already applied a wide variety of
rules to the setting in the BR community. It seems unlikely that such a
trend will stop because of yet another set of rules being used. Hackmaster
stuff may become dominant (though, I somehow doubt it) but on the whole the
BR community itself doesn`t really suffer for that.
02-07-2004, 10:07 PM #5Originally posted by geeman@Feb 7 2004, 01:20 PM
Hackmaster stuff may become dominant (though, I somehow doubt it) but on the whole the BR community itself doesn`t really suffer for that.
While I certainly agree with most of your points, this move nevertheless makes me very nervous. Perhaps I'm being overly cynical, but it would truly not surprise me if WotC came in and reversed themselves on allowing official sites for canceled lines to exist.
My other big question is why Hackmaster? A number of old TSR lines have gained new life in the d20 system (such as Ravenloft and Gamma World). I honestly can't understand why WotC would allow another company to produce an old line in a system other than d20. Especially when KenzerCo has shown itself able to produce an ostenively successful d20/ official D&D line with Kingdoms of Kalamar.
02-07-2004, 10:20 PM #6
There are a lot of things that could happen, but I find it hard to believe
that new players who discover a "HackRight" would simply ignore this
community entirely. Star Trek has gone through FASA, Last Unicorn, and is
now with Decipher and its fans just adapt to new role playing systems. Some
play the old FASA system, some play the new Decipher system, and so forth,
but that`s hardly something we would balk at. There is only one official BR
product in one system, but players who frequent this forum play other
systems and some have kept the setting current with a conversion to 3.x. If
you wanted to start a BR discussion on most standard game systems someone
would be here to tell you that they started working on it (and probably
never got finished). What is one more system? We are hardly system
specific. So what if one more system gets added to the mix. If it draws
new people to the BR that we know. If the new people don`t like what`s
going on here, we know its a Shadow World phenomena, and that it heralds
Azrai`s Return. Have a nice day.
02-07-2004, 10:37 PM #7
I suppose my posts might make it seem like I'm more worried than I actually am, though I do remain uneasy, not so much for the rules, but for the actual creative setting themes themselves. Star Trek can move from company to company, but it's still Star Trek. No one's going to change that setting simply for the reason that its Star Trek.
Though my posts might make me look reactionary, I can tell you I am far from that. What I'm trying to get express is that I am not excited about this new BR material. What I'm trying to express is trepidation.
02-07-2004, 11:00 PM #8
- Join Date
- Jun 2003
> While I certainly agree with most of your points, this move nevertheless
makes me very nervous. Perhaps I`m being overly cynical, but it would truly
not surprise me if WotC came in and reversed themselves on allowing official
sites for canceled lines to exist.
You mean exactly what they just did to Athas.org? Only a few months after
Athas.org released the "official" fan written Dark Sun Conversion, Wizards
has given Dragon and Dungeon the go ahead to develop the official conversion
for the April issues of those mags. The fan sites and their fan made
creations are far from the only official material. If Wizards decides its
more financially sound to sell the material or lease it out then they
will... thats just business.
> My other big question is why Hackmaster?
Because they paid to license the 2e and 1e material for Hackmaster. Money
02-07-2004, 11:10 PM #9Originally posted by Anakin_Miller@Feb 7 2004, 03:00 PM
Because they paid to license the 2e and 1e material for Hackmaster. Money talks
What I fully expect is to see products with goofy pictures on the front with names like "Road to Diz'Aster" (to name a product on the KenzerCo catalogue).
02-08-2004, 12:20 AM #10
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fearless_Leader" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>
Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 5:10 PM
> What I fully expect is to see products with goofy pictures on the
> front with names like "Road to Diz`Aster" (to name a
> product on the KenzerCo catalogue).
<shrug> That`s the nature of a parody. But its hardly a lack of quality
control, its a ... a parody. But even under the worst case scenario, the
Loonies who like to play a game that is a parody, might well get some of the
other kinds of players in their group to turn back to BR.
I am, however, not convicned that Hackmaster really is a parody. I think it
may well be a game system that functions as a parody (intentionally) as well
as a legitimate game system. In any event, parodies are funnier to those
people who know what is being made fun of, so not only is it designed for
us, but it might well draw folks in who what to see what all the guffaw`s
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